# How soon will the Clinton team carcus call for investigation of election results in swing states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 23, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793 "2016-11-23T04:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/122 "2016-11-26T21:34:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Exactly! Seems like only yesterday that Hillary and the anti-Trumpists were shrieking to the heavens about how traitorous and damaging to the very fabric of democracy and the United States itself it would be were Trump outrageously to contest the results of the election. One would have thought he was seeking to tear up the constitution itself and declare himself king, and now look how the worm has turned! But at least Hillary isn’t having to renege on claims of moving to Canada like so many of her likewise hypocritical compatriots. Extremely huge difference: Trump said, before any votes were cast, that the election was rigged and he wouldn’t accept any result other than a Trump victory. That’s just pissing on the democratic process. Clinton/Stein are going through the legal process of a recount. That’s exercising reasonable options given unusual circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/123 "2016-11-27T07:10:00Z")
I agree there’s nothing wrong with engaging in all legal means to change the result, whether that be lobbying electors or paying for recounts and audits. But I’ll still call this the ultimate flip flop now that Clinton’s on board: apparently the election can be rigged. And if it can be, then there’s nothing wrong with saying so before the election. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/124 "2016-11-27T12:45:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe you should let people who have a clue about these machines come up with the theories on possible hacking methods? I would very much enjoy a vetted person coming on here to explain, step by step, how it is impossible for evoting machines to be compromised. Start with the original programming, devised by an employee of a Conservative Republican owned business? I presume they do tests of the machines with the software installed, inputting a variety of known votes, comparing the result. Is that done by an independent auditor? Are the machines tested this way randomly selected? Can the date the machine thinks it is be set to election day? Are the machines checked, individually, by running a fake election on each one before the actual election, again, with the machine thinking it is election day? Is there any sort of just before the election diagnostic to prove no changes have been made since the last certification? All this tells me that only paper ballots and optical scanners should be used, with random counts of paper ballots ‘by hand’ to confirm machine total output. Do I think the election was rampant with fraud? No, I personally don’t. But until one can show that it was completely legit (and you never will be able to with evoting machines and absentee ballots) conspiracy theories will run rampant and the legitamacy of the election will be questioned by a significant percentage of the population. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/125 "2016-11-27T13:38:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree there’s nothing wrong with engaging in all legal means to change the result, whether that be lobbying electors or paying for recounts and audits. > > But I’ll still call this the ultimate flip flop now that Clinton’s on board: apparently the election can be rigged. And if it can be, then there’s nothing wrong with saying so before the election. Sure. If it’s possible that some theaters may be built using flammable materials, there’s nothing wrong with screaming that this one is on fire. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/126 "2016-11-27T13:59:48Z")
In this case we know it was built out of flammable materials, since as Vox has pointed out no one really checks to see if the machine counts are actually accurate. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/127 "2016-11-27T14:29:37Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Kinda like when Giuliani’s mayoral term was extended after 9-11, since New York City was in no shape to hold mayoral elections that were scheduled. I’m not sure what you’re referring to, but this never happened. Bloomberg was elected on Novermber 6, 2001, and Giuliani left office on December 31, 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/128 "2016-11-27T17:18:06Z")
The recounts aren’t going to change anything. Trump just won a slightly different demographic than Republicans normally do. He made gains, compared to 2012, in most of the rust belt and much of the northeast, not only Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, but Iowa, Ohio, West Virginia, North Dakota, South Dakota, Rhode Island, and Maine. Clinton made huge gains in California, Texas, Arizona, and Georgia, all safe states for the winners. Bottom line is that Trump got the votes where he needed them, and Hillary got the votes where she didn’t need them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/129 "2016-11-27T17:28:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree there’s nothing wrong with engaging in all legal means to change the result, whether that be lobbying electors or paying for recounts and audits. > > But I’ll still call this the ultimate flip flop now that Clinton’s on board: apparently the election can be rigged. And if it can be, then there’s nothing wrong with saying so before the election. Well, it’s useful to add it to your Clinton flip flop list, just in case she ever runs again but I’m sure you know it’s not an actual flip flop. They haven’t changed their position at all and are merely going to be interested observers in the Stein initiated recount process. I’m sure Trump lawyers will also be in attendance. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/130 "2016-11-28T00:48:20Z")
I thought this whole recount/audit business was pretty dumb, but the president-elect has now [alleged](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664) that there were “millions” of illegal votes cast. In that case, gosh, maybe we _should_ look to see if the guy who won by 107,000 really won. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/131 "2016-11-28T01:39:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I thought this whole recount/audit business was pretty dumb, but the president-elect has now [alleged](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664) that there were “millions” of illegal votes cast. In that case, gosh, maybe we _should_ look to see if the guy who won by 107,000 really won. You know, I already knew he was the kind of guy who didn’t know when to stfu but that still is hilarious. You definitely elected quite the president, America. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/132 "2016-11-28T02:03:25Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I thought this whole recount/audit business was pretty dumb, but the president-elect has now [alleged](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664) that there were “millions” of illegal votes cast. In that case, gosh, maybe we _should_ look to see if the guy who won by 107,000 really won. He continues to show what a whiny, petulant narcissist he is. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/133 "2016-11-28T02:04:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But I’ll still call this the ultimate flip flop now that Clinton’s on board: apparently the election can be rigged. And if it can be, then there’s nothing wrong with saying so before the election. Which is still different than preemptively claiming the election has been rigged before a single vote was cast. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/134 "2016-11-28T02:24:24Z")
Stein is claiming that the election that Clinton lost _might_ have been rigged. Trump was claiming that if he lost the election, it was _definitely_ rigged. There’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/135 "2016-11-28T02:45:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Which is still different than preemptively claiming the election has been rigged before a single vote was cast. Claiming based on zero evidence after the election doesn’t seem materially different from claiming based on zero evidence beforehand. > [@Chronos](#): > > Stein is claiming that the election that Clinton lost _might_ have been rigged. Trump was claiming that if he lost the election, it was _definitely_ rigged. There’s a difference. It’s still the proverbial “just asking questions.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/136 "2016-11-28T03:15:41Z")
Which is probably why it’s Stein doing it, not Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/137 "2016-11-28T03:59:58Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I thought this whole recount/audit business was pretty dumb, but the president-elect has now [alleged](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664) that there were “millions” of illegal votes cast. In that case, gosh, maybe we _should_ look to see if the guy who won by 107,000 really won. In California per his claims. Setting a stage for Congress to reject electors from there if Wisconsin et al fall? If there is one thing I have learnt this past 15 months, there is method to the Donald’s madness. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/138 "2016-11-28T06:07:05Z")
[https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/803071609330397184](https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/803071609330397184) > [@](#): > > Marc E. Elias > ‏@marceelias > We are getting attacked for participating in a recount that we didn’t ask for by the man who won election but thinks there was massive fraud (Marc E. Elias is the general counsel for the Clinton campaign.) ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/139 "2016-11-28T15:53:30Z")
This is one of the more bizarre developments to me. Trump wins the election handily, and could easily paint the recounts as underhanded undermining of democracy, or just stay quiet and treat the inevitable confirmation (I don’t expect the recount to change anything) as cementing his win. But instead of accepting his win, he feels like he should have won the popular vote, so he claims that there is massive voter fraud to the tune of millions of votes, which means that there should be massive nationwide investigations and recounts. It fits Trump’s ego (“Of course I won, people saying I didn’t are using liar’s numbers”), but just seems like an awful idea in general. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/140 "2016-11-28T16:03:59Z")
Wait a second. Are you suggesting that Trump is some kind of crazy nutbar without the good sense God gave a goose? Hmmm. You may be on to something there… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793/141 "2016-11-28T16:27:41Z")
Just (4) people were right and (60 people were wrong in your poll … so much for polls, uh? We the people don’t know anything … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-soon-will-the-clinton-team-carcus-call-for-investigation-of-election-results-in-swing-states/772793.md?page=8)