# How strictly should speed limits be enforced? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276 "2024-06-24T16:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/41 "2024-06-26T11:50:15Z")
I think the speed limits in specific areas should be studied closely. Look at traffic patterns. Revise upwards if it can be done safely. Enforcement in residential areas should be strict. Neighborhood streets are posted at 25 or 30mph to protect children and pedestrians. I don’t want cars zooming by my house at 40mph. I’m ok with 10mph over on highways except for known hazardous areas. The police know where the majority of accidents occur. We had a _dead mans curve_ near my hometown. The police had to monitor it constantly. Eventually drivers started driving slower as they approached the curve. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/42 "2024-06-26T11:57:50Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > There is a dramatic increase in the fatality of a meeting of a pedestrian and a car around 20 mph. I believe the speed of cars anywhere where there conceivably could be a pedestrian shouldn’t be higher than that. > And that speed limit should be hardwired in the car. Now _that_ is a wacky idea. A pedestrian could “conceivably” be anywhere. Including hiking along the shoulder of a freeway after running out of gas or having a flat tire. How about instead we build tall physical barriers where all the curbs are now to keep peds out of all roadways? Build pedestrian overpasses or a whole set of sidewalks at the second story level around all buildings? Make walking across a street at ground level the hanging offense you suggest driving 21mph should be. That would inconvenience far fewer people whether we’re measuring by occasions or hours. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/43 "2024-06-26T12:30:24Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Your view of traffic conforms poorly to reality. I always drive at the speed limit. I also keep to the right. This works well for everyone. The world that your mind perceives is illusory. I presume you are responding to me. I agree that slower traffic ought to keep to the right. But in many areas around Chicago, someone driving the posted speed limit pretty much constitutes a traffic hazard. I occasionally wonder about the mindset of someone who steadfastly drives 10-15 slower than everyone else on the road. What are you thinking. The law is the law, and nothing will make you question/deviate from that? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/44 "2024-06-26T12:39:52Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > There is a dramatic increase in the fatality of a meeting of a pedestrian and a car around 20 mph. I believe the speed of cars anywhere where there conceivably could be a pedestrian shouldn’t be higher than that. Cars almost always slow before actually impacting something. NHTSA and IIHS conduct crash tests at 35-40mph to simulate crashes on highways where the cars are traveling 55+ i agree that speed limits in areas with significant pedestrian traffic should be low enough that most impacts will be at less than 20mph, but that probably means a speed limit of 30-40. Maybe parking lots and school zones really should have limits like 20 or 25, but that seems excessively cautious for most areas. I don’t have a strong opinion as to how speed limits are enforced, but i feel strongly it should be predictable. I’ve driven on highways where everyone goes 5-10 more than the posted limit, and on highways where no one but nuts exceeds the posted limit. (Similar highways, but the first had a posted speed of 55 and the second a posted speed of 80. I was shocked at how similar the actual median speed of traffic was.) I’m okay with either. I kind of like the 5%+2 standard someone mentioned above. But so long as well all know the rules, I’m okay with it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/45 "2024-06-26T12:46:35Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Every car should be equipped with equipment to determine and enforce the speed limit. I suspect it would cause real problems if all vehicles were physically required to go the exact same speed as each other. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/46 "2024-06-26T13:03:50Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > We’re a democracy, so whatever a majority of drivers think is good in any given conditions should roughly define the functional limit. Under your proposal only the drivers get to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/47 "2024-06-26T13:11:31Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > Under your proposal only the drivers get to vote? On the “at least for major roads and highways” that I was discussing, yes. The vast majority of users on such roads are the drivers, after all. For smaller roads, like side streets, or urban centers, where you interact with other users much more often, limits make more sense, because they can be tailored to the situation, like how likely it is there will be a pedestrian, or the like. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/48 "2024-06-26T15:28:35Z")
IMHO, enforcing speed limits is quite subjective. I live in Western Canada but I have grands that live in Wisconsin. My oldest grand is a paramedic who often has exposure to police in her work. One officer described to her that his motto is “9 your fine, 10 you’re mine”. However, just how rigidly can speed limits realistically be enforced? We hear so much about “camping in the left lane” but you can’t have it both ways. If the speed limit is 60 MPH (100 klm/hr), someone is driving 59 MPH with a line of cars behind, do we expect the left lane “passer” to only go 60? It seems to me you can’t be too rigid on speed limits as the “no camping” rule can easily conflict with a rigidly enforced speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/49 "2024-06-26T17:17:18Z")
The safest option is occasionally temporarily exceeding the limit, so as to avoid an actual or potentially dangerous situation. The most common one for me is to be passing a semi, when either (a) a maniac is about to park on my behind, and/or (b) we are about to reach an interchange where merging traffic will likely compromise the trucker’s position (because the mergers will inevitably try to merge at 10-20 below the actual limit). I also get a bit nervous remaining next to big rigs for any length of time on general principles, having watched too many YT vids where they’ll merge into you for whatever reasons. So in such a situation I will definitely gun it to clear the essobee(s). Part and parcel of my strategy to minimize _friction_, which is the actual cause of accidents. I define friction as either being in close proximity to many vehicles in space or time, and/or having a large speed differential with them (which of course just means generating more friction over time). Going too fast for the average traffic flow is certainly dangerous-but so is going too slow. As indicated above I’ll take steps to minimize time spent driving adjacent to other vehicles, either speeding up or slowing down to get longitudinal _and_ lateral distance from them. Since there are so many factors involved in minimizing such potentially unsafe situations, a hard no-fuzzy limit is going to be counterproductive to safety on those grounds, so I am content with the current fuzzy state of affairs. Putting a governor in my vehicle will thus make me _extremely_ stabby. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/50 "2024-06-26T18:22:09Z")
Because there is so much positive results from overtaking? Because humans are good at picking a sane speed? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/51 "2024-06-26T18:56:48Z")
> [@Jegpeg](#): > > they recommend only handing out speeding tickets if a driver surpasses the speed limit by 10% plus 2. That seems excessively harsh. In a 40 km/h zone, I routinely drive around 50 and wouldn’t expect to get a ticket at anything less than about 60 km/h. Otherwise it seems like a waste of resources when the real objective should be to catch and discourage dangerous speeders. On expressways where the usual speed limit is 100 km/h, I’ve driven right by police radar many times at 120 without a problem. If they’re tied up issuing a ticket for a small infraction, they might miss the nut going by at 180. 50 km/h or more over the limit incidentally gets the car impounded and can draw a fine as much as $10,000. > [@Jegpeg](#): > > (Though in my experience speedos tend to underestimate speed rather than overestimate). You may have unintentionally reversed the meaning here. If a speedometer is inaccurate, most of the time it will be slightly over-reporting the speed (e.g.- showing 32 when you’re actually doing 30). > [@Jasmine](#): > > I’d much rather see tickets written for unsafe driving practices no matter what the speed. Absolutely. Unfortunately that’s harder to do, but that absolutely should be the objective. That’s one of the big problems with photo radar – it attacks the “easy pickings” rather than the real problem drivers – the road racers, distracted drivers, erratic lane-changers, idiots following too closely, and similar. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/52 "2024-06-26T19:51:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You may have unintentionally reversed the meaning here. If a speedometer is inaccurate, most of the time it will be slightly over-reporting the speed (e.g.- showing 32 when you’re actually doing 30). At least in the USA, that overestimation is actually required by regulation. I don’t have a cite handy, but IIRC it’s something like the speedo must read between 3 & 6% faster than actual, else it’s out of calibration. By design, they must lie to you in the fast direction. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/53 "2024-06-26T20:04:18Z")
> [@Jegpeg](#): > > In the UK the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) urges police officers to use their discretion when dealing with drivers who break the speed limit. To be more specific, they recommend only handing out speeding tickets if a driver surpasses the speed limit by 10% plus 2. I think that’s pretty sensible, and I would not interpret it to ‘you can go 77 in a 70mph zone’. All it should really mean is: You can drive at a speed your car measures to be 70, and not have to worry at all about getting ticketed. You can assume there is a small margin for error such as when the road conditions, hysteresis in your car’s controls, etc, cause your actual speed to oscillate slightly above and below the limit. Penalties for breaking _lower_ speed limits should be much greater than breaking higher ones - largely because the lower limits are typically in place to protect more vulnerable road users such as pedestrians, cyclists, etc. People are terrible at rating their own driving competence, so I do not believe in the notion that you should only be ticketed if you are speeding _and_ doing something else wrong/dangerous. Just because you didn’t mow down a schoolkid when you roared through a 20mph zone at 60 doesn’t mean you were safe; it just means you (and the pedestrians) were lucky, that time. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/54 "2024-06-26T20:09:29Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Penalties for breaking _lower_ speed limits should be much greater than breaking higher ones - largely because the lower limits are typically in place to protect more vulnerable road users such as pedestrians, cyclists, etc. Now that is an interesting concept! ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/55 "2024-06-26T21:12:01Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Penalties for breaking _lower_ speed limits should be much greater than breaking higher ones Not exactly what you mean, but even though speeds are usually expressed in max mph, I’d like to see enforcement when people drive too slowly. It creates speed differentials, which cause accidents. But if I’m being selfish, I just want people to speed up on the two-land road near me that leads to town. It starts at 35 mph, but then there’s a sign that reads, “End 35 mph speed limit.” That means it goes to the highest allowed in the state, but an infuriating number of people don’t read the ‘end’ part of the sign and end up traveling for miles at 35 when they should be going much faster. Really annoying when these people end up leading a parade of cars on their bumper. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/56 "2024-06-26T22:43:06Z")
Having minimum speed enforcement, whilst I take on board the differential speed risk factor, seems like it just panders to exactly the spirit of impatience that bedevils road safety in general. Much as ‘right of way’ is a concept that makes sense in itself, it empowers people to act unsafely in pursuit of their own individual perceived objectives. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/57 "2024-06-26T22:51:47Z")
Interesting psychological effect of speed cameras: people will still slow down in places where there is clearly no longer a camera present, but there _used to be_. There was one of those portable speed cameras set up near me, it was there for about a year, but it’s been gone for at least 3 years now, and at least 50% of vehicles going through there still slow down like the camera is still there. I know they’re doing this because they slam on their brakes right before where the camera _was_ set up, and they speed up as soon as they’re about 100 yards past that spot. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/58 "2024-06-26T22:52:40Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > But of course when you go the speed limit, you get some idiot right on your bumper. If I have to slam on the brakes to avoid a horrific accident, that’s gonna be on them if they rear end me. Which is why, when I get that kind of tailgater, I usually pull over (if possible) and let them go by. I’d rather have idiots like that ahead of me than behind me as I putt along at the speed limit in my elderly Scion xB. I should add I normally drive on exurban/suburban/small town roads. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/59 "2024-06-26T22:58:47Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > There was one of those portable speed cameras set up near me, it was there for about a year, but it’s been gone for at least 3 years now, and at least 50% of vehicles going through there still slow down like the camera is still there. I know they’re doing this because they slam on their brakes right before where the camera _was_ set up, and they speed up as soon as they’re about 100 yards past that spot. That’s interesting. One wonders whether they’re simply oblivious to the fact it’s gone from its e.g. pole, or they know it’s gone but are also assuming it’s just been moved to a less conspicuous spot. Or perhaps ref the current NextDoor thread, they’re simply believing the “just in case” exhortations of their idiot neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276/60 "2024-06-26T22:59:23Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > It starts at 35 mph, but then there’s a sign that reads, “End 35 mph speed limit.” That means it goes to the highest allowed in the state That depends on the state. It means that it goes to whatever the statewide default is, but I’m not aware of any state where the statewide default is the maximum. In Ohio, for instance, the default is 55, but we still have some interstates and similar-quality roads that go as high as at least 70. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-strictly-should-speed-limits-be-enforced/1003276.md?page=4)