# How stupid do these anti-choicers think we are? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813 "2013-07-06T21:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/21 "2013-07-07T23:10:11Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Much as I despise Rick Perry, and much as I oppose all stupid obfuscatory regulations of this sort, I’m not really sure it has anything to do with thinking anyone is stupid. If Rick Perry honestly believes abortion is wrong (which certainly many reasonable people do) then it is at least arguably ethical for him to do whatever he legally can to reduce the number of abortions that happen. Alternatively, to be more cynical, if he believes his political base is paying attention and is smart enough to understand what’s really going on, then it arguably makes sense as a purely political maneuver to curry favor with the pro-life crowd. Only if you believe that all actions are acceptable to get good results. What’s that called again? The dude is either lying to promote his cause, or is himself stupid enough that he thinks all this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/22 "2013-07-08T13:30:13Z")
I’ve talk to anti-abortion protestors, and their levels of stupidity never cease to amaze me. Recent discussion: Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… Me: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? Protestor: No! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/23 "2013-07-08T13:34:45Z")
Uhnm… I hope you left out an “in”, as in “but isn’t it _in_ the woman’s uterus”. Because otherwise you’ve just failed sex ed, anatomy 101 and a bunch of other basic subjects. And the fetus does have its own body parts, once it starts having them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/24 "2013-07-08T13:56:39Z")
No, she means that the uterus belongs to the woman/mother. Picture it said with the emphasis on “the woman’s”. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/25 "2013-07-08T14:11:16Z")
In Spain, it’s illegal to use a pronoun in a sentence before the noun it’s referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/26 "2013-07-08T14:35:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, she means that the uterus belongs to the woman/mother. Picture it said with the emphasis on “the woman’s”. Yes, I was trying to make the point that the “baby” has no right to be in the woman’s uterus if she does not want it to be there. Apparently the anti-abortion crew believes that, when a woman gets pregnant, her uterus now belongs to the “baby.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/27 "2013-07-08T14:37:53Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I’ve talk to anti-abortion protestors, and their levels of stupidity never cease to amaze me. Recent discussion: > > Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… > Me: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? > Protestor: No! This is a somewhat deceptive conversation. Of course it’s the woman’s uterus. But the underlying question might well have been understood to be, “Isn’t it the women’s uterus, and therefore any law which purports to compel her in any way is unacceptable?” The answer to that question is, in fact, “No.” We might imagine a similar conversation about child support. Says the father, “Isn’t it my body, working every day to generate money? How can you compel me to take some of the money I earn every day with my body’s physical efforts, and hand it to my child’s mother?” And the answer to that question is: as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the man to at least for a time disgorge some of his money to assist the child – even in cases where the man is of no biological relation to the child! So now we return to your conversation with the abortion protester: what if the conversation had gone like this: Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… Annie: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? Protestor: Yes, but that’s not really the question here; as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the woman to at least for a time use her uterus to assure the life and safety of her biological child. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/28 "2013-07-08T14:43:14Z")
Thanks for the explanations, as I evidently hadn’t understood it. While using a pronoun before the name it refers to isn’t illegal in Spain, it’s definitely something I’m not used to. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/29 "2013-07-08T14:43:26Z")
You can college up the protestor’s commentary, but it’s still short-sighted, irrational and intrusive. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/30 "2013-07-08T14:47:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is a somewhat deceptive conversation. > > Of course it’s the woman’s uterus. But the underlying question might well have been understood to be, “Isn’t it the women’s uterus, and therefore any law which purports to compel her in any way is unacceptable?” > > The answer to that question is, in fact, “No.” > > We might imagine a similar conversation about child support. Says the father, “Isn’t it my body, working every day to generate money? How can you compel me to take some of the money I earn every day with my body’s physical efforts, and hand it to my child’s mother?” > > And the answer to that question is: as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the man to at least for a time disgorge some of his money to assist the child – even in cases where the man is of no biological relation to the child! > > So now we return to your conversation with the abortion protester: what if the conversation had gone like this: > > Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… > Annie: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? > Protestor: Yes, but that’s not really the question here; as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the woman to at least for a time use her uterus to assure the life and safety of her biological child. If we required the man to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to support the child, I’d agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/31 "2013-07-08T14:50:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is a somewhat deceptive conversation. > > Of course it’s the woman’s uterus. But the underlying question might well have been understood to be, “Isn’t it the women’s uterus, and therefore any law which purports to compel her in any way is unacceptable?” > > The answer to that question is, in fact, “No.” > > We might imagine a similar conversation about child support. Says the father, “Isn’t it my body, working every day to generate money? How can you compel me to take some of the money I earn every day with my body’s physical efforts, and hand it to my child’s mother?” > > And the answer to that question is: as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the man to at least for a time disgorge some of his money to assist the child – even in cases where the man is of no biological relation to the child! > > So now we return to your conversation with the abortion protester: what if the conversation had gone like this: > > Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… > Annie: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? > Protestor: Yes, but that’s not really the question here; as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the woman to at least for a time use her uterus to assure the life and safety of her biological child. Fetus != Child but you know this so why do you keep misusing the word? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/32 "2013-07-08T15:28:57Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Democrats complaining about Republicans instituting burdensome and unneeded regulations. Did you guys switch scripts on accident? Unless Obama put a vegetarian in charge of the USDA who put forth regulations that said all cattle slaughtering must take place in the office of a certified veterinary surgeon via lethal injection after it had reached the end of its natural life, I don’t see the connection. Please indicate Democratically initiated regulations that are specifically designed for moral reasons so as to make a constitutionally protected service impossible. The closest I can think of is Big Tobacco and we haven’t eve come close to shutting them down. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/33 "2013-07-08T15:42:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yeah… I don’t appreciate being treated like a moron. :mad: When you use terms like “anti-choice” it kinda makes you look like one. > [@marshmallow](#): > > Democrats complaining about Republicans instituting burdensome and unneeded regulations. Did you guys switch scripts on accident? When Democrats try to regulate coal (for example), theya re not trying to shut down coal fired power plants, thats just the side effect of regulations that make industries pay for their own externalities. Republicans aren’t trying to make abortions safer, they are trying to get rid of them. Its an end run around Roe v Wade. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/34 "2013-07-08T15:46:17Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Fetus != Child but you know this so why do you keep misusing the word? I think that the anti-abortion folks might not agree with you on this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/35 "2013-07-08T15:52:01Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Fetus != Child but you know this so why do you keep misusing the word? I disagree. In my view, “unborn child” is an appropriate description for a fetus. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/36 "2013-07-08T15:54:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Unless Obama put a vegetarian in charge of the USDA who put forth regulations that said all cattle slaughtering must take place in the office of a certified veterinary surgeon via lethal injection after it had reached the end of its natural life, I don’t see the connection. Please indicate Democratically initiated regulations that are specifically designed for moral reasons so as to make a constitutionally protected service impossible. The closest I can think of is Big Tobacco and we haven’t eve come close to shutting them down. How about DC’s [myriad gun regulations?](http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2011/oct/6/miller-inside-dcs-gun-registry/) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/37 "2013-07-08T15:58:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. In my view, “unborn child” is an appropriate description for a fetus. > > Protestor: (The Baby) has his own head, his own arms, his own legs… > Annie: But isn’t it the woman’s uterus? > Protestor: Yes, but that’s not really the question here; as a society, we regard the welfare of the child as of such importance that we are willing to require the woman to at least for a time use her uterus to assure the life and safety of her biological child. Odd I don’t see the word “unborn” in the protestor’s speech. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/38 "2013-07-08T16:05:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about DC’s [myriad gun regulations?](http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2011/oct/6/miller-inside-dcs-gun-registry/) You mean the ones that were part of[Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_Control_Regulations_Act_of_1975)? That was passed by the District of Columbia city council. And were only struck down in [DC v. Heller](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller) in 2008 before Obama was even elected. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/39 "2013-07-08T16:17:06Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Fetus != Child but you know this so why do you keep misusing the word? But the difference in general conversation is in whether the whatever is wanted or not, and in conversations about abortion on whether the speaker is pro-choice or not (not-pro-choice \<\> pro-life), so **Bricker** ’s usage is perfectly cromulent. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/40 "2013-07-08T16:31:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree. In my view, “unborn child” is an appropriate description for a fetus. I missed the word unborn as did **Annie-Xmas** I notice, slip of the keyboard to omit that? Why not use the phrase unborn adult? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813.md?page=3)