# How stupid do these anti-choicers think we are? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813 "2013-07-06T21:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/401 "2013-07-13T20:33:52Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > . . . If he wants a uterus to control so much, let him grow his own. I grew three of them. . . . ??? Technical question: I thought the uterus was the permanent, structural part of the body – sort of like the cervix – there’s only one per woman, and it doesn’t regrow. Isn’t the placenta the part that gets regrown with each pregnancy? (And there’s another term for the part that grows and is expelled with each menstruation, but I don’t remember it…) Anyway… Am I remembering my anatomy lessons wrong? Wouldn’t three uteri be like three pancreases? Has nothing to do with the actual debate, where I am totally in agreement with you. Let’s make a law saying he has to have his nuts cut off, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Hey, it’s in the state’s legitimate interest, and that always trumps personal individual rights. Pffff. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/402 "2013-07-13T20:38:58Z")
I think she is likely referring to her own uterus and her daughters (which she technically grew inside her own uterus when she was pregnant with them). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/403 "2013-07-13T21:16:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > ??? Technical question: I thought the uterus was the permanent, structural part of the body – sort of like the cervix – there’s only one per woman, and it doesn’t regrow. Isn’t the placenta the part that gets regrown with each pregnancy? (And there’s another term for the part that grows and is expelled with each menstruation, but I don’t remember it…) Anyway… Am I remembering my anatomy lessons wrong? Wouldn’t three uteri be like three pancreases? > > Has nothing to do with the actual debate, where I am totally in agreement with you. Let’s make a law saying he has to have his nuts cut off, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Hey, it’s in the state’s legitimate interest, and that always trumps personal individual rights. Pffff. I have two very darling little girls that I love very much even when they throw up in my hair, write on the walls on and eat my last three thin mints. 😉 So I’ve grown three uteri. Forget penis envy. I really think some men have a serious case of womb jealousy. This whole issue is just so complicated. Most women don’t sit around and make it without thinking. Frankly any woman that does is probably not ready to be a mother. The last thing all of us need in the meantime is male legislators or male bystanders overruling us. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/404 "2013-07-13T21:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I have two very darling little girls that I love very much even when they throw up in my hair, write on the walls on and eat my last three thin mints. > > 😉 And how does your cat feel about them? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/405 "2013-07-13T22:31:21Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And how does your cat feel about them? Ha. The shorthair has made peace with them despite the fact that the little one has picassoe’d with him various writing implements multiple times. The Maine Coon is much the warier. She will only come out of the basement when she thinks the little one is asleep or away. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/406 "2013-07-13T23:50:38Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > I think she is likely referring to her own uterus and her daughters (which she technically grew inside her own uterus when she was pregnant with them). Ah! I could, obviously, be mildly pedantic, but no need. My confusion is allieved! > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > . . . So I’ve grown three uteri. Forget penis envy. I really think some men have a serious case of womb jealousy. . . . Absolutely true. Many men do indeed. The power to bring new life into the world is overwhelming. Many men also have breast envy, for the power to nourish new life. (Also, 'cause breasts are, like, way cool. Envy can be silly that way!) > [@](#): > > The last thing all of us need in the meantime is male legislators or male bystanders overruling us. Total agreement. Vive le difference, and leave people alone. The “personhood” of a fetus is a matter of opinion, not a meaningful fact. If one believes that fetuses are “people,” then at least have the grace to recognize that others honestly and with full integrity hold a different opinion. Meanwhile, this burdensome regulatory crap that they’re using these days – doctors have to have admitting privileges at hospitals, and ultrasounds must be invasive, and must be shown to the patient – are obscenely offensive. If I want to have brain surgery – far more invasive than an abortion – there’s no law that says I must be shown the cranial X-rays. (We could cranially X-ray the legislators in question, and the film would be blank…) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/407 "2013-07-14T01:20:06Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > … Forget penis envy… Actually, we are bitterly ashamed of it, and always looking for a place to hide it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/408 "2013-07-15T00:50:44Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > But your entire premise is that all human life is equally sacred. When you tell women to take any kind of risk for another, you don’t really follow through with that belief. She is less sacred to you and less important. > > You simply can’t get around the fact that the fetus doesn’t live in a sky farm somewhere and that women aren’t sitting around with bee-bee guns taking potshots at them. > > A fetus exists inside of a woman. You want us to adhere to your belief that women should be forced to take the risk of bringing it to term if she does not want to. In forcing her to do so against her will, you are violating your ridiculously sanctimonious delusion that you believe that all life is equal. You really don’t. You want to force her to assume risks for your religion and moral beliefs. The guilty woman should be coerced into bringing the innocent fetus to term. > > If I were to find out I was pregnant tomorrow, I and I alone would decide what to do about. My medical decisions are frankly none of your fucking business. You and your fellow fetus worshippers would be far happier if you would leave me alone and stop worrying your pretty little heads about my reproductive choices. > > My decisions about what medical risks to assume for myself are mine alone. The fact that you feel free to dare tell me otherwise is nothing more than your own repulsive sexism. Unfortunately women have health risks regardless of whether or not they continue their pregnancies. According to a [90s era study by the WHO](http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/1995/9241544694.pdf) (which is the newest I can find, unfortunately), in the US .6% of **legal** abortions result in maternal death and .2% in Canada; and if I’m doing the math correctly this is held against a rate of maternal death after live births of 1.3% in North America (but the latter also includes Mexico, which might account for this number seeming high to me). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/409 "2013-07-15T01:46:06Z")
Sounds way too high to me. .6% means 6 American women in a thousand, and with ~1 million abortions per year, that’d be 6,000 deaths. I’ll have to check this out. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/410 "2013-07-15T01:53:18Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Unfortunately women have health risks regardless of whether or not they continue their pregnancies. According to a [90s era study by the WHO](http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/1995/9241544694.pdf) (which is the newest I can find, unfortunately), in the US .6% of **legal** abortions result in maternal death and .2% in Canada; and if I’m doing the math correctly this is held against a rate of maternal death after live births of 1.3% in North America (but the latter also includes Mexico, which might account for this number seeming high to me). The table says .6 deaths per 100,000 abortions, nowhere near .6%. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/411 "2013-07-15T02:17:53Z")
What’s an error rate of a thousand to one matter, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/412 "2013-07-15T06:30:59Z")
Three days and no answer, huh? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/413 "2013-07-15T21:01:58Z")
I mentioned way back in this thread that our local city council has moved to create a human life ordinance that would effectively ban abortion. Since I posted, I’ve actually founded a local pro choice organization, created an event, talked to the media, and done a ton of research. Let me tell you: the more I’ve read about this ordinance, the more horrified I am. First, it was brought to the city council by this pastor who likes to picket outside of Planned Parenthood and harass women. Our Planned Parenthood doesn’t even do abortions, but that doesn’t stop this tool and his ilk from harassing women who are trying to get cancer screenings or prenatal care. Oh, he runs a Quiverfull home school, just in case you needed another reason to hate him. The best part, though? He isn’t even a resident of our city. He lives in Tehachapi, which is a mountain town a solid 45 minutes outside of city limits. He literally is in no way affected by what our city (ours, not his) does or doesn’t do with regard to reproductive rights. Yet, for some bass ackwards reason, our city council (all men and one 74 year old woman) is entertaining the ramblings of this nut bag. So, his actual ordinance? It’s so awful. [You can read it here on our Facebook page.](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=562310340500577) The way it’s so vaguely written basically creates a financial penalty for using or distributing birth control pills. Or giving or getting a tubal litigation. Or condoms! As someone even pointed out on our page: > [@](#): > > Since “entity” includes government agencies, and “consideration” includes money provided by any entity to another entity, it appears to me this would include the Police Department. PD is an entity that gets “consideration” from the City to perform its duties, some of which necessarily includes occasionally killing someone. > > So, any person aggrieved by PD killing someone could sue and potentially collect $10,000. The city attorney flat out told the council that this would never work. They will get sued. They will lose. Several folks said that’s fine, the city has money to spend on this. It’s insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/414 "2013-07-15T21:55:34Z")
How many police shootings take place in Bakersfield? I could use a new car. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/415 "2013-07-15T22:35:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are other risks besides the risk of death for pregnancy- injury, pain, alteration of their body, etc, in addition to my main complaint- that everyone (adult of sound mind) has (or should have) the right to expel anything from their body that they do not want inside. You assume a total lack of obligation or responsibility on the part of the pregnant mother. But at some point doesn’t the mother assume responsibility? Bricker might say the mother assumed the responsibility when she engaged in consensual sex. I would say she assumes responsibility after 6 months. We both agree that the woman can have an abortion at any time to save her life or health. You seem to be saying she can expel a fetus from her body whenever she wants no matter how far along she is for any reason whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/416 "2013-07-15T22:43:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You seem to be saying she can expel a fetus from her body whenever she wants no matter how far along she is for any reason whatsoever. Heck, I’m willing to say it outright, no hedging or couching, nothing to “seem”… ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/417 "2013-09-03T20:36:44Z")
OK. I had an anti-abortion protestor tell me “It’s a good thing that your mother didn’t believe in abortion like you do.” I asked him if he really thought pro-choice people never chose to give birth. He had no answer for that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/418 "2013-09-03T20:43:49Z")
Heh. Reminds me of the bumper sticker I saw back in 1993: _What if Mary had been Pro-Choice?_ Umm, IIRC, she was. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/419 "2013-09-04T10:51:11Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > So, his actual ordinance? It’s so awful. [You can read it here on our Facebook page.](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=562310340500577) The way it’s so vaguely written basically creates a financial penalty for using or distributing birth control pills. Or giving or getting a tubal litigation. Or condoms! As someone even pointed out on our page: I don’t think this is wise legislation. But I don’t believe your claim that it would prohibit giving or getting a tubal litigation, or condoms. That seems like a false statement to me. Can you explain?. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813/420 "2013-09-04T17:10:33Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > OK. I had an anti-abortion protestor tell me “It’s a good thing that your mother didn’t believe in abortion like you do.” > > I asked him if he really thought pro-choice people never chose to give birth. He had no answer for that. Just wondering, do you work at or near a clinic? I haven’t seen an anti-abortion protestor in years, and that was only when I drove past one without knowing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-stupid-do-these-anti-choicers-think-we-are/662813.md?page=22)