# How taboo are golliwogs these days? Anybody here have/had them? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491 "2013-06-20T17:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/21 "2013-06-21T00:24:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > . . . Is it “N[\*\*\*\*\*]?” . . . Yes. Seriously, yes, there are a few of us who are reluctant to use the word, holding it to be pretty much the ne plus ultra of offensive language. There are a few other words I’d very much rather not use. I was once spelling a word over the phone in a technical context. A like in Apple, B like in Banana…N like in Fuhrman… ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/22 "2013-06-21T00:30:00Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I thought “Wog” was an acronym for Wily Oriental Gentleman. As with almost any etymology for a pre-20th century word based on an acronym, that one is untrue. Wog has been a generalised word for diseases and vermin for centuries. It’s still widely used in Australia to mean a non-specific illness. It seems to have shifted to being a racial slur through the obvious route. It has nothing to do with any acronym and nothing to do with golliwogs. The word golliwog itself seems to have originated as a play on “polliwog”, which itself is a usage of the “vermin” meaning of wog. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/23 "2013-06-21T00:36:38Z")
I never owned a Golliwog as a child (nor did I own a teddy bear - what a deprived childhood I had). I was in a craft store (regional NSW) recently which had hundreds of teddies, golliwogs and all manner of soft toys. I was drawn to a particular golliwog but it was already sold to someone else. They do make to order, so I have one coming to me. Turns out his name is George, which is my father’s name. No, I don’t feel I’m being racist or xenophobic in buying one. He’s gorgeous. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/24 "2013-06-21T00:48:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Trinopus > Member > > Join Date: Dec 2002 > Location: San Diego, CA > Posts: 5,110 > Quote: > Originally Posted by Leo Bloom > . . . Is it “N[\*\*\*\*\*]?” . . . > Yes. > > Seriously, yes, there are a few of us who are reluctant to use the word, holding it to be pretty much the ne plus ultra of offensive language. There are a few other words I’d very much rather not use. > > I was once spelling a word over the phone in a technical context. A like in Apple, B like in Banana…N like in Fuhrman… But it’s OKAY to write “Kike?” Or Kike? Hey, victim-status opprobiousity fight: I challenge all you bastards. Also, the word “use” is weird. By using other symbols than the alphabet for sounds that everyone knows (cf. “Jehovah”)–what? Thunderbolt from on high for writing or pronouncing the word in an appropriate context (cf., again, “Jehovah”). Feeling of being virtuous by alerting your readers that you think the word is a really powerful one (I don’t think we need such a commentary)? Religous Jews do it with “G-d”; in Hebrew liturgy, with “Jehovah,” they don’t even go there sonically, in prayer skipping away entirely and in non-liturgy double-skipping away. I mean, at least, when you wrote it, did you not internally sound out the carefully counted starred/obscured letters/phonemes? Are we not to? Because we can’t. Especially after you called it “the ‘N’ word”–eg, its _that_ word we’re supposed to know if we are culturally literate. Plus you’re of such a feeling and opinion of SD that you changed the quote, which is frowned upon. (I know you used brackets, but it might not have been clear to others reading the cite). ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/25 "2013-06-21T00:55:32Z")
[They come in white versions too, BTW](http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9444689.Golliwog_toys ____promote_race_tolerance___ /) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/26 "2013-06-21T00:55:44Z")
I think the idea is still heavily racially charged, here in the US. I think most people aren’t really familiar with it, but would be quick to see its unsuitability of they did see one. This page from the Jim Crow Museum puts it down pretty squarely: [The Golliwog Caricature - Anti-black Imagery - Jim Crow Museum](http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/golliwog/) It seems highly probable to me that “gollywog” spun off somehow from "pollywog’ – heck , no other word even sounds close to it in english. And even if some other word sits at the root, “pollywog” almost certainly helped it attain its form. The word first appeared, AFAIK, in a children’s book, and from there it became a British cultural icon. What amazes me is that Alan Moore made the (unnamed)Gollywog a character in his third League of Extraordinary Gentlemen outing, The Black Dossier, almost as if he was waving it in the face of modern sensibility. But Moore’s LXG series pretty often showed apparently racist attitudes and dialogue, whether because of the period of his influences, or for some other reason. scroll to the note on Page 166 in this link: [http://www.enjolrasworld.com/Jess%20Nevins/Black%20Dossier/dossier.html](http://www.enjolrasworld.com/Jess%20Nevins/Black%20Dossier/dossier.html) > **[And We Shall March](https://andweshallmarch.typepad.com/and_we_shall_march/the_black_dossier/index.html)** > > Black. Geek. And fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/27 "2013-06-21T01:11:43Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > [They come in white versions too, BTW](http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9444689.Golliwog_toys ____promote_race_tolerance___ /) This article is worth reading. Definitely worth watching–and I know comments on it would be of interest–is the [scene from _Extras_](Http://youtu.be/s2pniymmkpg) where her dream man comes over for a first date. (Note that whoever posted the clip put “golly toy” in the title. Common usage? Even with lower-case, or was that a typo?) She then takes a [test to check if she’s a racist.](http://youtu.be/LLWWFU7r2K0) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/28 "2013-06-21T02:11:46Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Interesting history, full of ironies, in [Wiki](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg). Jeezily-FUCK! But not surprising, since the BBC showed that minstrel show until, when was it? Last week? The '70s? Same difference. Either way it was too damned late. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/29 "2013-06-21T02:17:14Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > But it’s OKAY to write “K[\*\*\*]?” You didn’t read what I said very carefully. I said there are several other words I would also be reluctant to use. You happened to have zeroed in on one of them. Your reasoning is fallcious. “I don’t approve of murder.” “But it’s OKAY to commit rape?” “I don’t like racists.” “But it’s OKAY to be a homophobe?” “I wouldn’t drink urine.” “But it’s OKAY to eat feces?” To all four questions (yours and my three examples) the answer is: No. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/30 "2013-06-21T03:19:21Z")
In regard to the history, > [@](#): > > The earliest Golliwog (or Golliwogg as he was originally called) is the hero in books of verse written by Bertha Upton in the 1890s, and illustrated by her daughter Florence. > **[All about Gollys & Golliwogs at Golliwogg.co.uk](http://www.golliwogg.co.uk/)** It also appears that the term “Wog” is also originally a British one, [Wog - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog) I’ve seen the term used in fictional pieces set in the 1800’s and used in context by upper class English gentlemen to refer to anyone who wasn’t English, but usually aimed at those with darker skin. In regard to the OP about how taboo they are, here’s an interesting reference to Enid Blyton’s granddaughter writing new stories about Noddy and Big Ears but removing the Golliwogs from the cast. > **[No golliwogs in first Noddy adventure in 45 years to 'avoid upset'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221385/No-golliwogs-Noddy-adventure-45-years-avoid-upset.html)** > > When Noddy returns to Toyland he will be missing one of his friends. Author Sophie Smallwood, Enid Blyton’s granddaughter, has decided to banish golliwogs. I know of a woman who collects them still. She’s aware of the racial over tones but is not personally racist, to her they’re a stuffed toy that she particularly likes. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/31 "2013-06-21T03:34:22Z")
I’m glad to say that I have never heard of these before, with the possible exception of an old Rupert book I had as a kid. At any rate they are exceedingly-uncommon her in Ontario. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/32 "2013-06-21T03:46:13Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The man whose room this was was himself Black. I asked him outright if he had any issues selling this stuff. He said that he was fascinated by these things, and that most of his big-spending customers were other Black people who were also fascinated by these things. Go figure. 😕 You might find [this article](http://www.theroot.com/views/should-blacks-collect-racist-memorabilia) interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/33 "2013-06-21T05:05:45Z")
Why do we look at history to decide this ? IF the history shows that Africans were wronged,then it does, but what does that have to do with deciding what is right ? Why shouldn’t a black person a. like black dolls b. be curious even knowledgeable about all thing that affect the status of black people in the past, even including childrens dolls, c. create a doll or even dress up like a tearaway who is a bit of a clown. The gollywog is misunderstood. It is in fact at tool for breaking down barriers. Actually its neither here nor there. Just as the boy may pretend to hang his gollywog, the girl may pretend to marry hers. I can’t see why its offensive to have a gollywog character. If I dress up like the POTUSA, I am dressing up to pretend to be an idiot ? The ban on gollywogs is only a ban imposed by overly selfrighteous doogooder types who are just don’t know real life. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/34 "2013-06-21T06:16:47Z")
It’s the history associated with the toy and the fact that it’s a caricature of black features that’s the issue, **Isilder**. Imagine we had a “Jew-boy” toy, with a comedy hooked nose, and wicked scowl, that had been used for decades to make fun of Jewish people. You would not appreciate that such a thing would be offensive? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/35 "2013-06-21T07:00:10Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’m glad to say that I have never heard of these before, with the possible exception of an old Rupert book I had as a kid. At any rate they are exceedingly-uncommon her in Ontario. I don’t think there were any golliwogs in the Rupert stories. Rupert and his friends were not talking toys, they were anthropomorphized versions of real animals. I am pretty confident that golliwogs are very uncommon in Britain now, but 50 or 60 years ago they were very common (and, not coincidentally, back then actual black people in Britain were very uncommon). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/36 "2013-06-21T07:30:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It’s the history associated with the toy and the fact that it’s a caricature of black features that’s the issue, **Isilder**. > > Imagine we had a “Jew-boy” toy, with a comedy hooked nose, and wicked scowl, that had been used for decades to make fun of Jewish people. > You would not appreciate that such a thing would be offensive? I don’t think it’s really true that the golliwog character was used to make fun of black people - certainly the design of the character is based on a caricature, but the character itself exists for that purpose - indeed, the early origins of the character appear to have been a lesson about racial tolerance; from the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg#History)page on the topic: > [@](#): > > The 1895 book included a character named the Golliwogg, who was first described as “a horrid sight, the blackest gnome”, but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a “kind face.” Golliwog is not to black as Fagin is to Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/37 "2013-06-21T07:46:46Z")
I often see them for sale in shops around here. Your average Aussie is aware they are controversial, but doesn’t understand why. They perceive them as a made-up humanoid character and don’t associate them with people of African heritage (that’s certainly the case with my mother and grandmother who have both asked me in genuine puzzlement why they are “banned”). I’ve said before that I think it’s because when they think of African Americans, they think of Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Halle Berry, Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Condoleezza Rice, Michael Jordan… they don’t think of blackface. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/38 "2013-06-21T08:00:37Z")
Golliwogs was the original name of Creedence Clearwater Revival [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Golliwogs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golliwogs) ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/39 "2013-06-21T08:00:39Z")
I remember a golliwog toy when I was a kid, I think it was knitted. I also had some old records with stories, one of which was Little Black Sambo. This was in the 70s, I was the youngest of three so they were probably purchased in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![palacheck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@palacheck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palacheck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/40 "2013-06-21T08:14:51Z")
Boy, the aboriginal population of Australia really doesn’t have much push at all it seems. Have they ever? They’ve had their dicks knocked in the dirt so many times that no one really bothers, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491.md?page=3)