# How taboo are golliwogs these days? Anybody here have/had them? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491 "2013-06-20T17:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/121 "2013-06-27T14:30:22Z")
Who else here now really, really wants a Golliwog? And also wishes that Jewboys were a real thing so we could have them, too! ---
**Author:** ![Virgil\_Tibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@Virgil\_Tibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Virgil_Tibbs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/122 "2013-06-27T16:12:39Z")
I didn’t have a golliwog as a child but they weren’t viewed negatively where I grew up. Yes, they are caricatures of black people, but I never used or thought of them in a racial way. It’s sad to hear that some black kids were taunted with the term, but frankly, if they hadn’t called you golliwog, they would have called you something else. You can’t blame a doll for racism. The general perception now is definitely that golliwogs are racist – their very existence is seen as an insult – but this is a very recent development. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/123 "2013-06-27T16:38:34Z")
I can recall seeing the jockeys for tying horses when I was young in the south. I guess I can understand them in terms of 1960. Where I have an issue is thinking somehow after all of the learning we as people in the US have undergone and the greater understanding of the consequences of our behavior that those figures can be seen as innocent. Many people may not have understood the consequences of the things then, but by now, I find it hard to believe that they don’t now understand that they are wrong now and were wrong then. I have honestly never seen nor heard of a golliwog, but I have seen the blackface caricatures and see them as pieces of racist trash. Everyone has had enough time to learn and at this point, those who haven’t are probably not going to. I am as southern as they come, but I see that damned battle flag for what it represents and what it represents has no good to it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/124 "2013-07-03T13:55:10Z")
> [@Virgil\_Tibbs](#): > > I didn’t have a golliwog as a child but they weren’t viewed negatively where I grew up. Yes, they are caricatures of black people, but I never used or thought of them in a racial way. > > It’s sad to hear that some black kids were taunted with the term, but frankly, if they hadn’t called you golliwog, they would have called you something else. You can’t blame a doll for racism. > > The general perception now is definitely that golliwogs are racist – their very existence is seen as an insult – but this is a very recent development. If by “very recent” you mean “40 years or so,” yes. Easy to forget how the years stack up when you’ve lived through them. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/125 "2013-07-04T22:24:40Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > If by “very recent” you mean “40 years or so,” yes. Easy to forget how the years stack up when you’ve lived through them. Yep. I’m 39 and from the UK and I’ve always known them to be dodgy. My Mother, on the other hand, just can’t get her head around what is wrong with them. Whenever it is discussed she just says “But I loved my Golliwog” as if that somehow negates everything. Sorry to say it, but we just have to wait for those generations to die out. We haven’t a hope until that happens. Yes, there will be new people coming in with similar lack of understanding but they will be in ever decreasing numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/126 "2013-07-06T12:47:15Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > It was used extensively as a term of racial abuse in the UK right through to the 1980’s. > > For many of those years, there was a brand of Jam and Marmalades called ‘Robertsons’ that had a very long running promotion, whereby you collected golliwog cut outs from the labels, and once you had collected enough you sent them off and you would receive a little golliwog badge or golliwog ornament, these were extremely popular with children. > > For anyone of any colour, it was very common to be abused with the term’ Get back on your jam jar nig-nog’ > > I was the recipient of this abuse for years, sadly many white folks still do not even begin to understand why this is a hateful figure, many folk still think that the removal of the golliwog promotion was just the P.C brigade gone mad. > > The abuse was real enough, I had numerous punch-ups merely from this one promotion alone and as a result of the frequent fights I got pretty good at it too, and I’m quite prepared to go on the offensive again. > > I just cannot imagine how white people seem to think they have the right to use terms that are obviously offensive, use them in an offensive manner, and act all surprised to find a set of fast moving knuckles in their faces. Wow it must be really awful living where you do, (I know the town as well ) because I never saw anything like it in the part of England where I grew up during that era. We had a Nigerian lad in my area who was treated differently by the rest of us kids only in that we kept pestering him about what lions and tigers were like, and his mum was laughed at by kids because she was fat, not because of her skin colour. Ironically the lad used to join up with Skinheads when he became a teenager to go “Paki Bashing”, which was the abusive term used to describe going out to beat up Asians, (Not necessarily Pakistanis) . Did you ever see any of that in your town growing up ? From what you’re saying there must have been loads of it. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/127 "2013-07-06T13:56:36Z")
I was born in the UK in the mid 50s, there’re is a picture of me chewing on a soft what we called a golliwog Zulu, when I was probably six months old. I remember it when I was older, it went missing when we moved to back to the the States in the mid 60s. My mother thinks a mover took it. But I don’t know. I have a “Mammy” cookie jar I salvaged from a dumpster during my college days. It isn’t painted , just a beige glaze. It’s in storage so I don’t have any pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/128 "2013-07-06T18:48:58Z")
A poster up thread said that no matter what the intent was, if a person was offended by something then it was offensive. So can I say that I find it offensive when people target my racial group as being the only ones who are racist, and that they themselves, and people of their own ethnic group are free of racism, or if there is any racism its only a small minority of people and its not very significant. I’ve seen more then a few Afro Americans who loathe and despise Latinos and Jews, and vice versa. And I’ve seen more then a few West Indians in the U.K. who loathe and despise Indians and Pakistanis, the feeling being more then mutual, likewise Arabs despising Africans, different racial groups in S.E. Asia who hate each others guts. A good start to stamp out racism would be the very people who claim to be so shocked, so mortally wounded by others perceived racism, to set an example by stamping out racism in their own ethnic groups, by recognising it and condemning it PUBLICLY, and then they might be taken a bit more seriously by amongst others “Whitey”, or “White Boys”, or “Honkeys” etc. At the moment it seems to be that the people who shout the most about perceived racism , not only do not do this, but don’t even mention their own ethnic/cultural groups as being at least as guilty, and sometimes more so, then the very people that they are so vocal in condemning. Even owning up to the fact that racism is quite prevalent amongst their own ethnicity would be a start. Personally I loathe and despise racists. And that includes Black racists, Brown racists or even sky blue pink racists. Lets cut the crap, lets cut the hypocrisy. Though no doubt I’m a racist for even daring to suggest that the “Saints” who are so happy to tell us about putting our houses in order, might even be the teensiest, weensiest bit guilty themselves. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/129 "2013-07-06T19:04:44Z")
This thread is for discussing golliwogs. If you’d like to complain about how racist every ethnic group but yours is, maybe you should start a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/130 "2013-07-06T19:26:51Z")
Yeah bye . ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/131 "2013-07-06T19:27:22Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Wow it must be really awful living where you do because I never saw anything like it in the part of England where I grew up during that era. > … > Ironically the lad used to join up with Skinheads when he became a teenager to go “Paki Bashing” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/132 "2013-07-06T19:52:07Z")
I see, you’re having a little difficulty between determining the difference between fanciful tales, related after drinking, about a Marmalade Emblem, which never ever in my experience was associated with being offensive by ANY ethnic minority. (Until the" we’re going to get offended by just about anything" brigade started telling people that they should be, that and wearing lipstick harked back to middle eastern prostitutes in B.C. highlighting their labia, so lipstick is an affront to women, but I digress ) And as such it wouldn’t have even occurred to the most hard core of racists to use a Gollywog as an insult, unless someone pointed it out to them . As opposed to people deliberately going out to use extreme violence on people that they’ve never met because of their ethnicity. If its too technical for you, and you don’t understand irony, then perhaps you’re in the wrong place. Because personally I find it ironic. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/133 "2013-07-06T21:40:18Z")
I do so love a spot of marmalade with my word salad. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > And as such it wouldn’t have even occurred to the most hard core of racists to use a Gollywog as an insult, unless someone pointed it out to them. Maybe you should go back and _read the thread,_ yeah? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/134 "2013-07-16T17:58:24Z")
Just to add an anecdote, I first heard the term from Heavy Metal magazine, Kierkegaard’s “Rock Opera.” The main character was Golliwog. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/135 "2013-07-17T17:32:41Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Wow it must be really awful living where you do, (I know the town as well ) because I never saw anything like it in the part of England where I grew up during that era. > > We had a Nigerian lad in my area who was treated differently by the rest of us kids only in that we kept pestering him about what lions and tigers were like, and his mum was laughed at by kids because she was fat, not because of her skin colour. > > Ironically the lad used to join up with Skinheads when he became a teenager to go “Paki Bashing”, which was the abusive term used to describe going out to beat up Asians, (Not necessarily Pakistanis) . > > Did you ever see any of that in your town growing up ? > > From what you’re saying there must have been loads of it. That was the “only” racism he experienced? Christ, I don’t know where to start with you. You’re making so many random bizarre insulting points, it’s almost like racism bingo. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/136 "2013-07-17T18:59:08Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > When I was a young child, in 1950s England, golliwogs were a standard cuddly toy for young children, much as teddy bears still are. I had one, as did most children. Whatever the toy’s origins may have been, by that time I am sure most of the children, and even most of the parents did not realize that it had racialist (as we used to say back then) or possibly offensive connotations. My parents were always very staunchly anti-racist, and I am sure they would never have let me have a golliwog (or to collect the labels from Robertson’s jam in order to get golliwog badges, which I also did) if tey haverhoug that there was anything racist about it. Indeed, it never even occurred to me, as a child, that a golliwog was meant to represent a black person, and when I learned about this (when I was much older and the idea that golliwogs were racist and offensive was starting to get about) I was, at first, quite surprised. After all, a golliwog does not, in fact, look very much like a real black person. > > Part of the reason for this, I think, is that until the later 1950s, there were almost no actual black people living in Britain. Thus, in the period (presumably before the 1950s) when golliwogs established them selves as a “standard” children’s toy in Britain, one the one hand there was nobody black around to take offense at them, and, on the other hand, most people who owned them or gave them to their children had never seen an actual black person, and probably often did not make the connection between real people and this very stylized toy. As the British black population grew, through the 1960s and '70s, the offensiveness of golliwogs came to be realized, even by people who never actually meant anything offensive by having them, and they fairly rapidly began to disappear from the toy shops. I don’t understand though, why the mere existence of a caricatured doll has to be the basis of offensiveness. As Mangetout points out, Barbie is very much a caricature of a white woman, and a pretty hideous one at that. My earliest memory of the Golliwog is from Enid Blyton’s Three Golliwogs stories, and they were the heroes of the book, extremely positively represented characters. > [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think it’s really true that the golliwog character was used to make fun of black people - certainly the design of the character is based on a caricature, but the character itself exists for that purpose - indeed, the early origins of the character appear to have been a lesson about racial tolerance; from the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg#History)page on the topic: > Golliwog is not to black as Fagin is to Jewish. Yup. It’s nonsensical, the way people have been arguing in this thread, that the mere existence of something is enough for it to be offensive. This isn’t some sort of propagandist hate speech incitement tool. It was a doll that was evidently loved by many and positively portrayed in many different spheres. That it is a caricature of an entire race of people is not germane. So are most, if not all, dolls. That some racists used it to offend is not germane. They would as happily have used something else. The original depiction of the Golliwog, most depictions in popular culture, and what the product was meant to be - something loved by children - point towards it being a pretty neutral or positive item. That people are offended by it is not enough, of itself, to declare it taboo. Anybody can be offended by anything, and they often are. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491/137 "2013-07-18T03:02:28Z")
It’s like this thread never happened. > [@bldysabba](#): > > I don’t understand though, why the mere existence of a caricatured doll has to be the basis of offensiveness. Yes the mere existence of such a doll can be offensive. Whether or not you believe the JewBoy doll is an apt analogy, nobody has bit the bullet and tried to claim that such a thing would be acceptable. > [@](#): > > The original depiction of the Golliwog, most depictions in popular culture, and what the product was meant to be - something loved by children - point towards it being a pretty neutral or positive item. Again, if the JewBoy originally featured in positive stories, that would make it OK then, right? And later Golliwog stories did paint the golliwog as a rouge-ish character. If any of this was germane at all, then to be consistent we’d have to say the golliwog _was_ a positive character and then _ceased to be_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-taboo-are-golliwogs-these-days-anybody-here-have-had-them/661491.md?page=6)