# How the baby boomers destroyed everything **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878 "2017-02-26T21:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/21 "2017-02-28T21:17:51Z")
His grand narrative is not entirely wrong: _Anyway, the boomers’ retrograde preferences mattered more than nominal political affiliation, pushing even modern Democrats to the right of Richard Nixon on many matters. After all, it wasn’t Nixon, or even Ronald Reagan, who planted so many of the noxious seeds that blossom now; it was Clinton, the ur-boomer progressive. The “end of welfare as we know it”? Clinton. Berserk policies on crime, immigration, gays, deregulation, and surveillance that bloated into today’s prison state, travel bans, transgender showdowns, and financial crises? Clinton again. The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, Defense of Marriage Act, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc.? Clinton provided the themes; Bush II and Donald Trump, the variations; and other boomers, the orchestra and applause._ It’s one explanation for the growth of the right in Western countries. [I can’t speak on Eastern / Middle Eastern countries; on the other hand they have always had a right-wing outlook, just not called that. EG: what’s called traditionalism in Afghanistan seems very like extreme rightism here.] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/22 "2017-02-28T21:29:53Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The postwar booms - children, productivity and economic - are directly at fault for many of our problems today. Instead of being seen as bubbles or bulges or anomalies, they were enshrined as the new normal, so when we fell away from them, it was a series of national crises and endless efforts to “restore” things or prop up failing industrial/economic/educational models. Its’ still being done by politicians who point to ca. 1955 as the good old days we need to get back to. It sounds like the problem isn’t what we did in 1955, it’s what we’re doing in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/23 "2017-03-01T02:02:11Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > His grand narrative is not entirely wrong: > _Anyway, the boomers’ retrograde preferences mattered more than nominal political affiliation, pushing even modern Democrats to the right of Richard Nixon on many matters. After all, it wasn’t Nixon, or even Ronald Reagan, who planted so many of the noxious seeds that blossom now; it was Clinton, the ur-boomer progressive. The “end of welfare as we know it”? Clinton. Berserk policies on crime, immigration, gays, deregulation, and surveillance that bloated into today’s prison state, travel bans, transgender showdowns, and financial crises? Clinton again. The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, Defense of Marriage Act, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc.? Clinton provided the themes; Bush II and Donald Trump, the variations; and other boomers, the orchestra and applause._ > It’s one explanation for the growth of the right in Western countries. > [I can’t speak on Eastern / Middle Eastern countries; on the other hand they have always had a right-wing outlook, just not called that. EG: what’s called traditionalism in Afghanistan seems very like extreme rightism here.] I need a definition here. Is “insane” a synonym for “not entirely wrong”? All of those policies he dislikes are based on the beliefs of mainstream America from the 1950s. I’m talking about the whites who fled cities during the 50s and 60s, creating the segregated monocultural suburbs. I’m talking about the corporate executives who ripped manufacturing jobs away from the now Rust Belt and spread them around to non-unionized places, both in the South and in other countries. I’m talking about non-boomers Ford and Reagan, who decided that since their party increasingly lived outside those Rust Belt big cities they could remove all funding from them and deploy it elsewhere. I’m talking about the people who latched on to the idea that big cities were cesspools of crime and continue to claim that’s true even though crime rates have been cut in half since the 1970s. I’m talking about the generation who has the highest rates of antipathy toward anyone who looks, sounds, or thinks differently from them, who are not the boomers but the same silent generation who enabled Nixon and Reagan and all the rest of the hatemongers since. The ones who want the death penalty and more prisons but fewer immigrants and no transgendered. You know, sort of exactly the opposite world to what he says. Except that I lived through my history so I know it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/24 "2017-03-01T03:46:41Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Well, the good news is that boomers are starting to die off. As the millenials come of age and become our political, economic and cultural leaders, I’m sure that they will usher in a new era of prosperity and political unity. By 2050 the U.S. should once again be a paradise on earth. God willing. It’s simple: Millennials realize that we still have to live here, and so will our children. Boomers don’t care about that. Baby boomers left us with crippling debt, both personal and national, raped the environment, destroyed civic institutions, and left nothing but scorched earth in their wake. They’re like drug addicts who rob their own family members because they can’t help themselves. The worst part is we’re not even done cleaning up their mess. They haven’t saved anything for retirement, so guess who will have to foot the bill for their irresponsibility. And I’m not even sure it’s still _possible_ to stop climate change. So the only solution I see is to hope they either die or stop voting, though it’s obvious the former would be more advantageous. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/25 "2017-03-01T07:59:20Z")
But what makes this guy think that generations before or after wouldn’t of done the same…I mean being the first generation in 30 years that didn’t suffer real hardships or deprecations as a whole they could get jaded but they just had the same social attitudes that the generations had before them… Only thing is they had safety nets the others didn’t have ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/26 "2017-03-01T10:35:56Z")
Seems like a common mindset. [Barbarians: How The Baby Boomers, Immigration, and Islam Screwed My Generation](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU30NB0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) seems to do well at my local B&N. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/27 "2017-03-01T10:41:07Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > His grand narrative is not entirely wrong: > _Anyway, the boomers’ retrograde preferences mattered more than nominal political affiliation, pushing even modern Democrats to the right of Richard Nixon on many matters. After all, it wasn’t Nixon, or even Ronald Reagan, who planted so many of the noxious seeds that blossom now; it was Clinton, the ur-boomer progressive. The “end of welfare as we know it”? Clinton. Berserk policies on crime, immigration, gays, deregulation, and surveillance that bloated into today’s prison state, travel bans, transgender showdowns, and financial crises? Clinton again. The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, Defense of Marriage Act, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc.? Clinton provided the themes; Bush II and Donald Trump, the variations; and other boomers, the orchestra and applause._ Seconding everything my brother **Exapno Mapcase** said. And adding this: Blaming Clinton for all that stuff is total bullshit. In the wake of the 1994 electoral disaster, Clinton was just trying to slow down the right-wing train headed right at him, with the expectation that if he didn’t do relatively mild Democratic versions of all these things, he’d get kicked out of office in 1996 and the GOP would be free to implement much more harsh versions of all the above. Glass-Steagall may be an exception to that, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/28 "2017-03-01T10:47:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > The worst part is we’re not even done cleaning up their mess. They haven’t saved anything for retirement, so guess who will have to foot the bill for their irresponsibility. **E-DUB** responded to your post #24 in post #7: > [@E-DUB](#): > > I would remind the author that the crux of the Reagan/O’Neil deal on Social Security reached in the eighties, just as many mid-range boomers were either just entering the workforce or were in their lower wage-earning years, was that boomers would not, as had been the case in the past, finance merely the retirement of the previous generation of Social Security recipients, but their own retirement as well. > > Any difficulties, real or imagined, facing the social security trust fund are not the fault of the generation that has, essentially, paid double in FICA over most of the course of their working lifetimes. > > That does also cut into one’s ability to save. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/29 "2017-03-01T10:58:13Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Seems like a common mindset. [Barbarians: How The Baby Boomers, Immigration, and Islam Screwed My Generation](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU30NB0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) seems to do well at my local B&N. Wow, that is some seriously crap polemic there. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/30 "2017-03-01T17:24:05Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > **E-DUB** responded to your post #24 in post #7: > [@E-DUB](#): > > From the article: “So what if Social Security faces partial insolvency after 2034?” > > I would remind the author that the crux of the Reagan/O’Neil deal on Social Security reached in the eighties, just as many mid-range boomers were either just entering the workforce or were in their lower wage-earning years, was that boomers would not, as had been the case in the past, finance merely the retirement of the previous generation of Social Security recipients, but their own retirement as well. > > Any difficulties, real or imagined, facing the social security trust fund are not the fault of the generation that has, essentially, paid double in FICA over most of the course of their working lifetimes. > > That does also cut into one’s ability to save. Adjusting for inflation, in 1983 the highest tax rate was 50% and the highest bracket was $188,562. Now it’s 39.6% and $416,383. So the boomers lowered the actual amount of taxes they paid and then shifted a good portion of those taxes specifically to their retirements. Then they borrowed from SS to pay for the government they should have been paying for in the first place. They artificially created a huge debt owed specifically to them for future generation to pay. When they started to reach retirement age the long term capitol gains tax went from something like 20% to 12%. Claiming they paid a little extra FICA so nobody should complain is insane. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/31 "2017-03-01T17:33:43Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > So the boomers lowered the actual amount of taxes they paid and then shifted a good portion of those taxes specifically to their retirements. Then they borrowed from SS to pay for the government they should have been paying for in the first place. It was **Republicans** who went all in on that tax-cutting agenda. Not just boomer Republicans, and not boomer non-Republicans. Republicans/conservatives are really getting desperate for people to blame their failed economic policies on. After years of trying to pretend it was the liberals’ fault, the blame appears to be shifting to an entire generation. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/32 "2017-03-01T18:02:01Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Adjusting for inflation, in 1983 the highest tax rate was 50% and the highest bracket was $188,562. Now it’s 39.6% and $416,383. So the boomers lowered the actual amount of taxes they paid and then shifted a good portion of those taxes specifically to their retirements. Then they borrowed from SS to pay for the government they should have been paying for in the first place. Ascribing that action to Boomers when barely 10% of Congress were Boomers in 1983 is a really silly claim. It presumes that all the Boomers voted the same way for the bills and that they had magic powers to make the rest of Congress go along with them. (It is similar to the occasional claim that Boomers “wouldn’t fight for their country” causing us to lose in Vietnam–ignoring the fact that over half the deaths in that war were Boomers and that polls throughout the war showed majorities and hefty pluralities (depending on the year) of Boomers supporting the war.) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/33 "2017-03-01T18:03:26Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > So the only solution I see is to hope they either die or stop voting, though it’s obvious the former would be more advantageous. Well, I am a boomer, and I plan to live at least until 2050. My point is that every generation faces difficult problems and choices, and there is no one right solution that is going to make everyone prosperous and happy. OTOH, if 2050 is some kind of utopian state, I’ll be more than willing to come back here and post an apology to the millenials who really did turn out to be the greatest generation. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/34 "2017-03-01T18:09:54Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > God willing. It’s simple: Millennials realize that we still have to live here, and so will our children. Boomers don’t care about that. Baby boomers left us with crippling debt, both personal and national, raped the environment, destroyed civic institutions, and left nothing but scorched earth in their wake. More nonsense based on rhetoric (actually, polemic), with no factual basis. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/35 "2017-03-01T19:12:43Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > God willing. It’s simple: Millennials realize that we still have to live here, and so will our children. Boomers don’t care about that. Baby boomers left us with crippling debt, both personal and national, raped the environment, destroyed civic institutions, and left nothing but scorched earth in their wake. > > They’re like drug addicts who rob their own family members because they can’t help themselves. > > The worst part is we’re not even done cleaning up their mess. They haven’t saved anything for retirement, so guess who will have to foot the bill for their irresponsibility. And I’m not even sure it’s still _possible_ to stop climate change. > > So the only solution I see is to hope they either die or stop voting, though it’s obvious the former would be more advantageous. Every generation apparently wants to hasten along preceeding ones – you should hear my rants against the “Greatest Generation” – but Boomers inherited debt, too (which still isn’t crippling) and the environment actually improved as we moved through the years with ever greater control. I have no idea what you mean by “destroying civic institutions” so I can’t answer that. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/36 "2017-03-01T20:32:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Ascribing that action to Boomers when barely 10% of Congress were Boomers in 1983 is a really silly claim. It presumes that all the Boomers voted the same way for the bills and that they had magic powers to make the rest of Congress go along with them. (It is similar to the occasional claim that Boomers “wouldn’t fight for their country” causing us to lose in Vietnam–ignoring the fact that over half the deaths in that war were Boomers and that polls throughout the war showed majorities and hefty pluralities (depending on the year) of Boomers supporting the war.) That just supports what I’m saying. If you look at **E-DUB** ’s initial post he says boomers raised taxes on themselves to pay for their future SS benefits. It’s your contention that they didn’t because they didn’t have enough power. That makes sense because a boomer would never raise taxes on themselves. What I’m saying is that from 1983 on they have been continuingly lowering taxes on themselves. All raising their SS payments did was funnel a larger amount of the taxes they were paying back to them specifically, instead of the larger public. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/37 "2017-03-01T20:51:46Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Baby boomers left us with crippling debt, both personal and national, raped the environment, destroyed civic institutions, and left nothing but scorched earth in their wake. No, that was just **RTFirefly**. He’s confessed. It should be noted that a member of the Greatest Generation killed Jesus - Lenny Bruce. \*"All right, Iʼll clear the air once and for all, and confess. Yes, we did it. I did it, my family. I found a note in my basement. It said: ``` We killed him. signed, Morty. ``` And a lot of people say to me, “Why did you kill Christ?” I dunno…it was one of those parties, got out of hand, you know. "\* ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/38 "2017-03-01T21:02:51Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > If you look at **E-DUB** ’s initial post he says boomers raised taxes on themselves to pay for their future SS benefits. It’s your contention that they didn’t because they didn’t have enough power. That makes sense because a boomer would never raise taxes on themselves. **Non-Republican** boomers have done that more than once. As I pointed out and you steadfastly ignored, over the past several decades the people who have been stubbornly resistant to all suggestions of **any** tax increase **ever** have been Republicans of **all** generations. It’s truly amazing to see how suddenly the taxation conversation has flipped from the constant Republican chant of _“Taxes bad! Tax cuts good!”_ to resentful whining because those **other** people back then didn’t tax themselves enough. Shit, dude, we liberals kept **trying** to tax ourselves in a responsible manner, all the way back to the Reagan years. It was the non-liberals who went on this anti-government anti-taxation spree. The culprits here are not so much generational as ideological. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/39 "2017-03-01T21:04:16Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I have no idea what you mean by “destroying civic institutions” so I can’t answer that. I think it means “uppity wimmenfolks no longer make sammitches”. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878/40 "2017-03-01T21:59:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think it means “uppity wimmenfolks no longer make sammitches”. Yeah, that’s it. That’s what this Millennial said. Y’know, like we’re known for saying. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-baby-boomers-destroyed-everything/780878.md?page=3)