# How the Bush military cares for injured reservists.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 19, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276 "2003-10-19T00:33:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/41 "2003-10-20T07:30:35Z")
The reporter has spoken to many soldiers. What reason is there to believe that he is lying? Have you any proof that he is not doing his job?
If you’re going to suggest that the reporter is lying, I propose it’s your job to prove it so.
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### Author:  [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/42 "2003-10-20T07:51:32Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Lucretia: I’m also wondering why that story has the Soldiers waiting “in hot cement barracks.” Heck, I was stationed there in 1982~1983 and my barracks were cement; however, when I bothered to turn on the air conditioner, it wasn’t that hot. \*\*
From the article:
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> Most soldiers in medical hold at Fort Stewart stay in rows of rectangular, gray, single-story cinder block barracks without bathrooms or air conditioning. They are dark and sweltering in the southern Georgia heat and humidity. Around 60 soldiers cram in the bunk beds in each barrack.
I’m all too familiar with military medicine from a few years back. My husband was in the Air Force, on active duty. At one base, if I had an ear infection, I was routinely told that the soonest available appointment was in 4 months or so. I had to go to the ER, and I was lucky to see a doctor in 16 hours or so. An ear infection should not require a trip to the ER. I could pull more examples out of my experiences, but the fact of the matter is that it seems that the military ALWAYS understaffs its medical teams.
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### Author:  [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/43 "2003-10-20T09:42:19Z")
Well, ok, as long as we are using personal experiences…I’ve been a consumer of military medical care for 18 years. I’ve been active duty, a dependent wife with dependent kids, and now I’m and active duty Air Force RN. We’ve lived on both Air Force and Army instillations.
Is the military medical system all it could be? Nope, sure isn’t. IS there chronic understaffing and unessescary beauracracy? Yup. Have I been frustrated sometimes? Sure have.
However, I’ve never waited more than a few hours, or had my children have to wait for more than a few hours, for an urgent condtition. For true emergencies, of which there have been mercifully few, we’ve always been immediately taken care of. There were times when it took a bit of personal consumer advocacy and assertiveness, but we never went without nessescary care.
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### Author:  [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/44 "2003-10-20T10:37:58Z")
My experiences jibe with Lynn’s. When Aaron’s had ear infections, and his own doctor was busy, and there were no other doctor’s appointments available, we had no choice but to take him to the local ER. Each ER visit cost somewhere in the neighborhood of about a grand. (Of course Tricare, the military insurance plan, never paid more than a few hundred.) This is YOUR tax money at work, y’all.
The main reason we had to go to the ER was because there are a few doctors (three that I know of) who treat babies Aaron’s age, and their appointments fill up fast. So instead of offering incentives to bring the local pediatrics practice into Tricare, they’re paying the local ER a few hundred bucks a pop for an _ear infection_.
Robin
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/45 "2003-10-20T13:16:56Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> Perhaps we’d like to see some reputable reporting about that substandard care, cmason. Did you ever think of that?
UPI isn’t reputable?
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> Or perhaps the reporter could do his damn job and show some facts and evidence.
He interviewed soldiers, some of whom are identified by name, rank, and unit. He provided a fair number of specific details about their medical conditions, care, and living conditions.
What part of his ‘damn job’ didn’t he do? Looks like a creditable bit of reporting to me.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/46 "2003-10-20T15:54:59Z")
OMG! Those Soldiers are getting the same treatment as other Soldiers! How awful! How horrible! Who would ever have thought that is the case?
Good grief, people. He interviewed Soldiers and he said that some of them felt they were being treated badly. I’m still waiting to see what medical appointments are unavailable for such a time period, why they’re unavailable, how emergent the need for those particular appointments are, and how often those Soldiers were referred to off-base medical establishments. Not to mention substantiation of their “feelings” as to how many such Soldiers are separated early from the military for medical conditions without receiving any benefits for same.
THAT’S the part of his damn job he didn’t do.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/47 "2003-10-20T21:03:51Z")
> [@](#):
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> A half-dozen calls by UPI seeking comment from Fort Stewart public affairs officials and U.S. Forces Command in Atlanta were not returned.
Perhaps the people at Ft. Stewart could have filled in some of the gaps in his story, but they weren’t talking.
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> He interviewed Soldiers and he said that some of them felt they were being treated badly.
You mean, like this?
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> another soldier who returned from Iraq six weeks ago with a serious back injury…has gotten to see a doctor only two times since he got back, he said.
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> Another Army Reservist with the 149th Infantry Battalion said he has had real trouble seeing doctors about his crushed foot he suffered in Iraq.
Now, on to another of your comments:
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> OMG! Those Soldiers are getting the same treatment as other Soldiers! How awful! How horrible! Who would ever have thought that is the case?
Not me, that’s for sure. I would have thought it went without saying that the sick and wounded get treated differently from healthy GIs. Thanks for straightening me out on this point.
And while you sneer at the ‘feelings’ business, that’s part of the story. We’ve got a volunteer army, including the Reserves (of whom an unusual amount has been asked), and how they ‘feel’ about how they’ve been treated will surely affect re-enlistments, and may possibly affect new enlistments as well.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/48 "2003-10-21T04:03:35Z")
Generally of late, RT, I see you as a real jerk. Comments just as the one you’ve just posted are that which solidify that outlook. I never said the sick Soldiers were getting treated like healthy Soldiers you lying sack of crap.
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/49 "2003-10-21T04:42:42Z")
There’s no point in simply denying that a problem could exist, **Monty** , especially when verification is so easy:
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> [Doctors, dollars rushed to Fort Stewart](http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20031020-025820-5101r)
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> The Army said in its statement that it would spend money to improve those living conditions and is dispatching a team to look into the soldiers’ complaints.
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> “The Army does acknowledge that medical hold challenges exist – across the Army as well as Fort Stewart,” according to the statement. The Army “is absolutely committed to taking care of our people.”
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> At the Pentagon, Army Public Affairs Specialist Steven Stover said officials would try to use findings about the problems at Fort Stewart to improve conditions in the future.
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> “Is this happening? Yes, it is,” said Stover. “What we learn from this incident is going to help the Army when we have other major units returning” from Operation Iraqi Freedom.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/50 "2003-10-21T05:18:59Z")
Where did I deny that a probelm could exist? I’m rapidly getting fed up with people saying I said shit I didn’t.
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### Author:  [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/51 "2003-10-21T05:43:24Z")
> [@](#):
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> OMG! Those Soldiers are getting the same treatment as other Soldiers! How awful! How horrible! Who would ever have thought that is the case?
In that quote, “Those” refers to soldiers with medical conditions who weren’t getting treated, and were interviewed by the reporters. You’re more or less saying that there is no problem and the soldiers in the article are just ‘whining’, at least that’s the way it sounds from here. Maybe you meant it in a different way, but having said
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> Nope, Michael. I suppose someone put in a load of bullshit
and
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> Good grief, people. He interviewed Soldiers and he said that some of them felt they were being treated badly
in response to the article, it sounds a lot like you think they’re being treated just fine and dandy, when they clearly aren’t.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/52 "2003-10-21T10:01:12Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> Generally of late, RT, I see you as a real jerk.
That doesn’t particularly bother me, **Monty** , coming from you.
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> I never said the sick Soldiers were getting treated like healthy Soldiers you lying sack of crap.
Then WTF **were** you saying???
We were talking about sick and wounded soldiers. You said, “OMG! Those Soldiers are getting the same treatment as other Soldiers! How awful! How horrible! Who would ever have thought that is the case?” WTF was I _supposed_ to think?!
It’s up to you to make it clear what you are saying. Instead, you decided to go “awww, poor babies!” rather than actually say something intelligible. You thought you could score cheap debating points with the “awww, poor babies!” approach, but instead your post was simply a heap of infantile sarcasm without any intellectual clarity.
If your posts are roadkill, don’t get mad at me when I drive over them. And if you do, don’t expect me to take you seriously.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/53 "2003-10-21T15:31:35Z")
WTF I was saying, you two fools, is that sick Soldiers on active duty are evidently being treated the same way as sick Soldiers on active duty.
Now, perhaps if you’d pull your heads out of your tushes, your mind reading would work better.
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### Author:  [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/54 "2003-10-21T16:48:00Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Where did I deny that a probelm could exist? I’m rapidly getting fed up with people saying I said shit I didn’t. \*\*
So have you changed your mind about the reporter’s “bullshit” now that the Army has confirmed the story?
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/55 "2003-10-21T17:12:58Z")
I said perhaps. I said that I’m waiting for evidence, cmason. Unlike you, I’m not jumping all over the military or the administration absent evidence although I don’t particularly like the curr3ent president.
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### Author:  [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/56 "2003-10-21T17:50:22Z")
I jumped all over the evidence?
Why don’t you review this thread and see if I once said anything negative about the military, the administration or the president.
All I did was suggest you were in denial about the evidence and then asked you why you thought the reporter’s article wasn’t truthful.
Don’t put words in my mouth just because you were proven wrong.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/57 "2003-10-21T18:36:04Z")
Seems I’m not the only one who has been having trouble following **Monty** ’s train of thought lately.
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### Author:  [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/58 "2003-10-22T11:32:30Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*I said perhaps. \*\*
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/59 "2003-10-22T12:35:26Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \*
> \*\*Bush has held the office of the Presidency for nearly three years. At this point, yeah, he’s the one responsible for stuff like this. Would Congress appropriate money to make sure that sick and wounded soldiers are properly taken care of? You bet.
>
> It’s specifically the responsibility of the Secretary of Defense (guy named Rumsfeld; you may have heard of him) to know what’s working and what’s not in the Department of Defense, which includes Fort Stewart. And it’s his responsibility to make sure monies for stuff like this get in the budget and the appropriations bills.
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> On top of this, my feeling is that if they care enough about Fort Stewart to use it as the backdrop for yet another Presidential photo op, then they ought to care enough about it to make sure the servicemen housed there are being treated reasonably. \*\*
Maybe that’s why the Pentagon is investigating.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-bush-military-cares-for-injured-reservists/208276/60 "2003-10-23T00:46:11Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> WTF I was saying, you two fools, is that sick Soldiers on active duty are evidently being treated the same way as sick Soldiers on active duty.
Not sure where you said it before, but no matter. Thanks for illustrating the most basic of the three properties of an equivalence relation.
> [@](#):
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> Now, perhaps if you’d pull your heads out of your tushes, your mind reading would work better.
Can’t you come up with something more creative than that? If you can only insult on a fourth-grade level, why bother at all? Sheesh.
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