# How the fuck...? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265 "2005-06-21T22:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/21 "2005-06-22T14:46:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > A spreadsheet can indeed be a relational database. MS Excel? That’s a relational database. No it isn’t. > [@Debaser](#): > > All something needs to be a database is data. Very loosely interpreted, yes, that’s true. > [@Debaser](#): > > All something needs to be relational is rows and columns. Heirarchichal databases have rows and columns. They are not relational. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/22 "2005-06-22T14:57:06Z")
Simple. Poop floats. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/23 "2005-06-22T15:26:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > No it isn’t. Yes. It is. [cite](http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?tocId=9362288&query=database&ct=) > [@](#): > > **Database:** Collection of data or information organized for rapid search and retrieval, especially by a computer. [cite](http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?tocId=9376697&query=relational%20database&ct=) > [@](#): > > **Relational Database:** Database in which all data are represented in tabular form. [cite](http://www.lionbioscience.com/press/glossary/index_eng.html) > [@](#): > > **Relational database:** A database system that stores information in table form. [cite](http://www.dalisproject.org/aboutDalis_GISglossary.htm#R) > [@](#): > > **Relational database:** A collection of data organized in two-dimensional tables consisting of named columns and (usually unique) rows. If you have tables, then you have a relational database. This isn’t how they are commonly referred to but technically this is correct. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Very loosely interpreted, yes, that’s true. Usually when people talk about databases they mean ones on computers like SQL Server or Oracle. However, a shopping list stuck to the front a refrigerator certainly qualifies also. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Heirarchichal databases have rows and columns. They are not relational. [/quote] Technically, they are. They have rows and columns and this makes them relational. However, most people refer to advanced relational databases which are in (or mostly in) first normal form as simply “relational databases” and others as “flat”. The old style mainframe databases set up in tree structure are called “heirachical”. These names are because of the differences in the structure of them. But, technically, most databases use tables and this makes them meet the definition of a relational database. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/24 "2005-06-22T17:32:39Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Technically, they are. They have rows and columns and this makes them relational. However, most people refer to advanced relational databases which are in (or mostly in) first normal form as simply “relational databases” and others as “flat”. The old style mainframe databases set up in tree structure are called “heirachical”. These names are because of the differences in the structure of them. But, technically, most databases use tables and this makes them meet the definition of a relational database. Sorry to continue the geeky carping, but this is one the few things I feel like I know something about. Your definition of a relational database pretty much describes any list out there, which is NOT what a relational database is. In a relational database, data is _related_ to each other. I’m not sure there Delaware Appraisal Land Information System got it’s definitions, but [these sources](http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&hs=9U8&lr=&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&oi=defmore&q=define:Relational+Database) pretty much agree with everyone who’s disagreed with you so far. Sorry for the geeky digression. And, yeah, your boss sounds like someone waiting for retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/25 "2005-06-22T17:37:09Z")
A **relational database** is a collection of relations with distinct relation names. _Database Management Systems, Second Edition_ by Ramakrishnan and Gherke. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/26 "2005-06-22T18:51:22Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > However, a shopping list stuck to the front a refrigerator certainly qualifies also. Yeah… not so much. A list is still a list. Just cuz you can create a single column table and call that a database, doesn’t make it relational. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/27 "2005-06-22T19:29:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yeah… not so much. > > A list is still a list. Just cuz you can create a single column table and call that a database, doesn’t make it relational. I didn’t say it does. A shopping list on the refrigerator door is a database, but it isn’t relational unless it’s in table form with rows and columns. Most shopping lists aren’t that fancy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/28 "2005-06-22T19:37:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I didn’t say it does. A shopping list on the refrigerator door is a database, but it isn’t relational unless it’s in table form with rows and columns. Most shopping lists aren’t that fancy. …but earlier… > [@Debaser](#): > > Usually when people talk about databases they mean ones on computers like SQL Server or Oracle. However, a shopping list stuck to the front a refrigerator certainly qualifies also. SQL and Oracle are classic relational DBMS’s. See where I’m going with this?.. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/29 "2005-06-22T19:44:30Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > If you have tables, then you have a relational database. This isn’t how they are commonly referred to but technically this is correct. It’s hard to call something that doesn’t contain relational metadata a relational database. So on that score, spreadsheets are generally right out. Personally, I’d have trouble calling anything not in first normal form a relational database, but that might be stricter than most other folks. Don’t get too hung up on the rows, columns and tables–those are just how the data is generally visually presented, and it’s a very convenient metaphor for working with it. But it’s perfectly possible to have a set of XML files that comprise a relational database and don’t look like that. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/30 "2005-06-22T20:04:39Z")
Um, I think your geek is showing, guys. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/31 "2005-06-22T20:08:17Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Um, I think your geek is showing, guys. You say that like it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/32 "2005-06-22T20:27:25Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Um, I think your geek is showing, guys. Shit! Hold on a second… _ **tucks it back in** _ Whew! I can’t believe I was walking around all day with that thing hanging out. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/33 "2005-06-22T20:51:57Z")
If data is in a base with relational metadata but it’s not connected to any other data, does it really relate? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/34 "2005-06-22T20:52:56Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > If data is in a base with relational metadata but it’s not connected to any other data, does it really relate? As long as you have the metadata, you have a relational database. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/35 "2005-06-22T22:27:25Z")
A spreadsheet is the vertical mill of the software world. With a vertical mill, you can do anything any other tool can do, or just build the tool to do that dedicated function. Same thing with a spreadsheet. If you have a spreadsheet, you can build anything. A relational database, a word processor, a video game, whatever. It’s just easier and more efficient to use a dedicated tool for those things. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/36 "2005-06-22T23:58:21Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > If data is in a base with relational metadata but it’s not connected to any other data, does it really relate? No, it’s emotionally closed-off and distant. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/37 "2005-06-23T00:09:53Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > If data is in a base with relational metadata but it’s not connected to any other data, does it really relate? How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck knew SQL? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/38 "2005-06-23T00:25:19Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck knew SQL? SELECT [woodchucking capacity] FROM [animals] WHERE [animal name] = “woodchuck” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/39 "2005-06-23T00:46:10Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > SELECT [woodchucking capacity] FROM [animals] WHERE [animal name] = “woodchuck” Select **SUM** [woodchucking capacity] FROM [animals] WHERE [animal name] = “woodchuck” - woodchuck is not a unique record in the animals table. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265/40 "2005-06-23T02:36:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ah he musta bought his account on e-bay. 😃 I was thinking the same thing until I got to “CIO” in the first post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-fuck/309265.md?page=3)