# How the HELL is this instrument practical?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 21, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612 "2006-05-21T05:39:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/1 "2006-05-21T05:39:43Z")
I started a thread on Benavente basses that went by the wayside and got zero responses. I’ll try again, but ask a more specific question.
[This bass](http://grasstain.com/images/coorslightbenavente11.JPG) has eleven strings. The fretboard is as wide as about two and a half regular bass necks. How is it practical to play such an instrument? How can the fingers possibly reach the lower strings with comfort and ease?
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/2 "2006-05-21T05:50:40Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#):
>
> I started a thread on Benavente basses that went by the wayside and got zero responses. I’ll try again, but ask a more specific question.
>
> [This bass](http://grasstain.com/images/coorslightbenavente11.JPG) has eleven strings. The fretboard is as wide as about two and a half regular bass necks. How is it practical to play such an instrument? How can the fingers possibly reach the lower strings with comfort and ease?
Yeah. Like, a piano keyboard, is like, what, almost three times as long as an accordian keyboard. How is that even practical? Obviously it’s all about pianist envy.
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/3 "2006-05-21T06:53:38Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> Yeah. Like, a piano keyboard, is like, what, almost three times as long as an accordian keyboard. How is that even practical? Obviously it’s all about pianist envy.
I don’t know if this is sarcasm, or a joke, or what - but an accordion is obviously played vertically, whereas a piano is played horizontally. Longer keyboard neccessitates a different physical mode of playing. Nobody could play an accordion with 88 keys in the conventional manner.
A bass guitar, on the other hand, is always held the same way. Unless you’re suggesting that this Benavente bass be laid vertically and played in the manner of a pedal steel guitar, I still don’t see this being a practical or comfortable instrument.
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### Author:  [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/4 "2006-05-21T11:21:39Z")
One of the Internet profiles that keeps dumbfounding me is John Turner, a working musician and moderator at [talkbass.com](http://talkbass.com). Check out his electric bass collection here:
[http://lordonly.net/lojtbas1.htm](http://lordonly.net/lojtbas1.htm)
Sure, he doesn’t own any 11-string from what I can see, but check out the bass in the middle of that couch – yes, it’s a double neck. 14 strings baby, count 'em if you wish. My back hurts when I think of that monster, he must have trapezius muscles the size of dinner plates.
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### Author:  [@DrMemory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrMemory)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/5 "2006-05-21T11:23:08Z")
Well…_First_ …Ya gotta drink a lotta beer!..
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### Author:  [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/6 "2006-05-21T12:34:32Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> Yeah. Like, a piano keyboard, is like, what, almost three times as long as an accordian keyboard. How is that even practical? Obviously it’s all about pianist envy.
Er. Have you ever played bass? Do you understand the origin of **Argent** ’s incredulity? Or are you just talking?
---
### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/7 "2006-05-21T13:19:30Z")
Well, I can think of a couple of reasons to haul one of those monsters around. 1) If it’s an 11-string (or 8-string, or doubleneck, etc.) it’s probably a handmade, boutique bass that has a lot of thought put into the finish, shape, and wood. In other words, it’s pretty. And expensive. 2) You want to show off your mad bass-playing skillz by showcasing that you’re a) badass enough to know what to do with 11 strings, and b) (referring back to 1 above) serious enough about it to spend the cheese on an expensive, custom bass.
In other words, I think it’s all about style over substance, and seriously, if 4 strings was enough for Bootsy Collins, it ought to be enough for your lite fusion studio project. Hell, lord knows I’m no fan of Jaco Pastorius, but he had massive chops, and I believe he dragged around the same 4-string J-bass his whole damn career.
In general, if I even see 5 strings, I’m usually thinking “uh-oh.”
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/8 "2006-05-21T14:10:25Z")
> [@cactus waltz](#):
>
> Sure, he doesn’t own any 11-string from what I can see, but check out the bass in the middle of that couch – yes, it’s a double neck. 14 strings baby, count 'em if you wish. My back hurts when I think of that monster, he must have trapezius muscles the size of dinner plates.
Double neck? Pah. Ever been to a [Yes](http://www.chrissquire.com/images/imgAwaken.jpg) concert?
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/9 "2006-05-21T16:02:08Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#):
>
> I don’t know if this is sarcasm, or a joke, or what - but an accordion is obviously played vertically, whereas a piano is played horizontally. Longer keyboard neccessitates a **different physical mode of playing**. Nobody could play an accordion with 88 keys **in the conventional manner**.
_[Emphasis added.]_
Thanks for making my point for me.
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### Author:  [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/10 "2006-05-21T16:38:43Z")
**lissener** : He asked how it’s practical. It is obvious to most of us that accordian keyboards and piano keyboards, although different, are both practical. It’s certainly not obvious to me, from looking at that picture, how one would play an 11-string bass, or that it’s even possible. If you know, please explain.
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### Author:  [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/11 "2006-05-21T18:34:37Z")
It looks to me like it’s a combination of a six-string (non-bass) guitar and a five-string bass. I say this based on the string thicknesses, and the arrangment of the bridge and the pickups. Also, the range of an 11-string bass with any sort of standard tuning would extend well up into the range of a regular guitar, or down below limits of human hearing.
As for playing, I’m guessing that you’d play the “treble” range like a regular six-string guitar, and the bass range with the left hand going over the top edge. Certainly a non-standard bass technique, but not impossible, and one you could teach yourself with any regular (five-string) bass.
That said, I can’t see how this design would have any clear advantages over a double-necked guitar/bass combo. It seems to me that the action on an 11-string would have to be a real compromise, and that fret-spacing for the treble side would also be less than ideal. Whereas a double-neck wouldn’t have those problems and also wouldn’t require learning a whole new technique.
It’s a strange beast, all right, and as has been suggested, I suspect it’s designed more for showing off than for top-notch music making.
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### Author:  [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/12 "2006-05-21T18:43:44Z")
> [@commasense](#):
>
> It’s a strange beast, all right, and as has been suggested, I suspect it’s designed more for showing off than for top-notch music making.
That’s what I was thinking, another “This one goes up to _eleven_. That’s louder, innit?”
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### Author:  [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/13 "2006-05-21T18:56:15Z")
Well, after looking around the [Benavente Web site](http://www.benaventeguitars.com), it looks like I was wrong about both of my basic assumptions. It is a bass, a [custom SCB](http://www.benaventeguitars.com/gallery/extended.php). Also, it looks like people with hands as big as [Al Caldwell](http://www.benaventeguitars.com/al_caldwell/index.htm) can play all the strings from the normal playing position. (See the picture of him with Vanessa Williams, about halfway down the page.)
So all it takes is big hands, and lots of flexibility and strength. But it still doesn’t seem to be a very practical instrument for most bassists.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/14 "2006-05-21T19:03:09Z")
> [@commasense](#):
>
> …the range of an 11-string bass with any sort of standard tuning would extend well up into the range of a regular guitar, or down below limits of human hearing.
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar) confirms that the former is correct: “Extended range 11-string basses which go from a low C# up to a high Eb (one semitone below a guitar’s high E)”
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> In general, if I even see 5 strings, I’m usually thinking “uh-oh.”
Why? Isn’t it just an extended range downwards, no different to a five-string double bass?
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [May 22, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/15 "2006-05-22T02:13:59Z")
It’s an attitude thing. In general, I see a guy trot out a bass with eleven strings, or two seven-string necks (one fretted and one fretless) , and I immediately think of a class of Jaco Pastorius lovin’, Pat Metheny worshippin’ yahoo that give off an insufferable “I’m way more progressive than you” lite-jazz vibe that I can’t abide. I don’t like the attitude, I don’t like the music, and I don’t like their approach to music in general. I saw the doubleneck bass and thought, “I bet the guy who plays this has a ponytail and little tiny Geddy Lee sunglasses,” and [goddamned](http://lordonly.net/Images/John/jt2x99namma2.jpg) if I wasn’t right. That guy is exactly the type who’d say something like this:
> [@](#):
>
> Actually, about three months after I got my 2nd 7string bass, the fretted, I started to realize that I often wanted to use fretless and fretted in the same song, both on the long songs like Dante’s Cafe, [40 minutes] and Nosferatu [20 minutes]…
I mean, c’mon. Get over yourself. 40 minutes. Jesus.
This guy comes on stage, and I guarantee you, by minute 15 of “Dante’s Cafe,” people are going to start migrating next door to check out the used book store, go grab a sandwich, or take a dump.
So it’s not the extended bass range _per se_ that warns me off…
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### Author:  [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/16 "2006-05-23T01:49:07Z")
> [@BMax](#):
>
> That’s what I was thinking, another "This one goes up to _eleven_.
First thing I thought of when I saw that guy from Yes above, and of course the Geddy Lee-glasses-wearing dude **Ogre** mentioned…Harry Shearer playing a double-necked bass. 😃 :smack:
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### Author:  [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/17 "2006-05-23T03:29:04Z")
> [@Ogre](#):
>
> It’s an attitude thing. In general, I see a guy trot out a bass with eleven strings, or two seven-string necks (one fretted and one fretless) , and I immediately think of a class of Jaco Pastorius lovin’, Pat Metheny worshippin’ yahoo that give off an insufferable “I’m way more progressive than you” lite-jazz vibe that I can’t abide. I don’t like the attitude, I don’t like the music, and I don’t like their approach to music in general. I saw the doubleneck bass and thought, “I bet the guy who plays this has a ponytail and little tiny Geddy Lee sunglasses,” and [goddamned](http://lordonly.net/Images/John/jt2x99namma2.jpg) if I wasn’t right. That guy is exactly the type who’d say something like this: I mean, c’mon. Get over yourself. 40 minutes. Jesus.
>
> This guy comes on stage, and I guarantee you, by minute 15 of “Dante’s Cafe,” people are going to start migrating next door to check out the used book store, go grab a sandwich, or take a dump.
>
> So it’s not the extended bass range _per se_ that warns me off…
40 minutes songs? And I thought I was superior because I listen to Tool. Hilarious post, by the way.
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### Author:  [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/18 "2006-05-23T15:34:40Z")
At first glance it (the bass in the OP) looks like something that would be played mostly by tapping, like a [Warr Guitar](http://www.warrguitars.com/WarrRSS/Warr%20Guitars.html) or Chapman Stick. Doesn’t seem like consuming a lot of beer would be conducive to playing it well, though.
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### Author:  [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/19 "2006-05-23T20:50:59Z")
If we’re going to talk about multi-string configurations, don’t forget the late Michael Hedges, who was known for playing the Harp Guitar.
Look at [this page](http://www.nomadland.com/Stage_Rig.htm#Harp) and scroll down to the bottom, section 7. There are pictures of Michael playing different varieties of the Harp Guitar.
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### Author:  [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-hell-is-this-instrument-practical/357612/20 "2006-05-24T04:40:51Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#):
>
> Double neck? Pah. Ever been to a [Yes](http://www.chrissquire.com/images/imgAwaken.jpg) concert?
Sweet! I’m first to mention…
_The [six-necked guitar](http://www.hamerguitars.com/?fa=rick_nielsen) played by Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick!_
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