# How the #&$% is Thai food vegetarian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025 "2012-01-19T16:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/21 "2012-01-19T22:39:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now read this thread. Some here have used the term “vegetarian” or “strict vegetarian” when they seemed to mean “vegan”. When I’m using the word “vegetarian” in this thread, I do not mean vegan. I am talking about those vegetarians who will not eat dead animals or foods involving products using dead animals. However, they will eat milk, honey, eggs, etc. So I mean strict ovo-lacto-vegetarian when I’m talking about “strict vegetarians.” (Which, depending on your views, may be an oxymoron.) As I said above, I’ve known several people who fall into this category–it’s probably the most common form of vegetarianism I’ve encountered. I don’t really know anybody who is that fussy about the isinglass or whatever used as finings in drinks, but certainly cheeses made with animal-based rennets are objectionable to a number of vegetarians I know. So much so that when I’m preparing a meal for a vegetarian, I check on what cheeses I could use. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/22 "2012-01-19T22:49:29Z")
Moving to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/23 "2012-01-19T23:39:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …Yes, I know that according to the Linnaeen system, “fish” are animals. ( **Actually, there aren’t any “fish” per se anymore, but that’s a side issue** ). But for centuries before Linnaeus “animal” often meant what we’d call “mammal” today and “fish” was anything that swam in the sea- such as starfish, blackfish, etc… Bwuh? 😕 Could you please elaborate on the part I bolded? _glances at betta swimming peacefully in his bowl on my desk._ Is my new little Fishie not, in fact, a fishie? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/24 "2012-01-19T23:52:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, they keep moving the goalposts. Really once upon a time as recently as the 1950’s many “vegetarians” ate fish. That was what was meant by “vegetarianism”. Then around the 60’s or so, they excluded fish, but dairy and eggs were fine, and they ate scads of honey. Now we often call this “Ovo-lacto vegetarianism” instead of just “vegetarianism”. And starting in the 1950’s or so there were a darn few ate no animal products, who were called “Vegans”. Who’s they? Honestly, in Anglo-American culture the term has relatively little history. In India, however, vegetarianism has been practiced for millennia and it’s fairly well accepted among both vegetarians and non-vegetarians that as a baseline matter, fish and eggs are not vegetarian and mushrooms, dairy, and honey are vegetarian. The vagaries surgounding word “animal” is irrelevant since it only comes into play if you are assuming that every concept is based on how words are defined in English. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/25 "2012-01-19T23:53:02Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Bwuh? 😕 Could you please elaborate on the part I bolded? _glances at betta swimming peacefully in his bowl on my desk._ Is my new little Fishie not, in fact, a fishie? Wiki “Because the term “fish” is defined negatively, and excludes the tetrapods (i.e., the amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals) which descend from within the same ancestry, it is paraphyletic, and is not considered a proper grouping in systematic biology. The traditional term pisces (also ichthyes) is considered a typological, but not a phylogenetic classification.” In other words, there ain’t no class “Pisces” anymore, that was from Linnaeus. What was “Pisces” is now (and I simplify) _Agnatha, Chondrichthyes_, & (what are the little guys swimming around your fishbowl) _Osteichthyes_, aka “Bony fish”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/26 "2012-01-19T23:55:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Who’s they? Honestly, in Anglo-American culture the term has relatively little history. In India, however, vegetarianism has been practiced for millennia and it’s fairly well accepted among both vegetarians and non-vegetarians that as a baseline matter, fish and eggs are not vegetarian and mushrooms, dairy, and honey are vegetarian. . Umm, no, not at least as far as eggs go, see **pulykamell** ’s definition. So, your “fairly well accepted” is _not._ ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/27 "2012-01-20T00:05:49Z")
Fish do not form a clade; there are a bunch of animals that live in the sea and have scales and gills and so on, and generally look "fish"y, but they aren’t thought to all actually derive from a shared common ancestor not common to other animals. In that sense, they are a suspect way of categorizing animals (much like it would be odd to speak of a language family containing English, French, and Spanish. but not German). ETA: Wow, I guess I was keeping this window open without refreshing. Way late on the ball on this one… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/28 "2012-01-20T00:12:07Z")
What’s 10 minutes between friends? 😉 Your post added info, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/29 "2012-01-20T00:52:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s also true that vegetarians are not the same as vegans. Vegetarians avoid meat, usually defined as red meat and poultry, but consume a variety of meat products, including dairy, eggs, and sometimes fish. > > And some people don’t mind fooling themselves if the food tastes good. Vegetarians aren’t the same as vegans, true, but vegetarians don’t eat fish. Pescatarians eat fish. Minor nitpick perhaps, but my sister went from omnivore to pescatarian to vegetarian, and she assures me there’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/30 "2012-01-20T01:05:58Z")
Hare Krishnas don’t eat garlic or onions either. Makes their food very bland IMO. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t know what the standards are for "Asian vegetarian, At a Buddhist vegetarian restaurant I went to in Hong Kong, a lot of ‘meat’ products were faked using vegetables - e.g. chicken drumsticks made of soya protein complete with plastic bones, and taro fish, which presented us with a fish made out of the versatile root vegetable, even using a pea for its eye. I noticed pork chops on the menu so I called the waiter over: “what are the pork chops made out of?” He looked at me like I was stupid. “Pig,” he said. “But this is a vegetarian restaurant.” “Yes..?” “And a pig is an animal.” “No it is not.” “What is it then?” “A vegetable.” ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/31 "2012-01-20T01:25:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Somewhat relevant for vegetarian home cooks: Mae Ploy’s Yellow Curry paste is shrimp-paste free (and the only one in their lineup as such.) Aroy-D’s green curry paste is also shrimp-free. (I knew I had a tub of green paste in there and was all set to prove you wrong. Imagine my chagrin!) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/32 "2012-01-20T01:28:14Z")
If the paste includes “nam pla” though, it has fish sauce in it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/33 "2012-01-20T01:28:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm, no, not at least as far as eggs go, see **pulykamell** ’s definition. So, your “fairly well accepted” is _not._ Well, he is saying that in the context of the Indian definition of vegetarianism. Which is enlightening, because I never tweaked that Indian vegetarians don’t eat eggs. I’ve been around plenty of Indian vegetarian meals, and, now that it’s mentioned, it seems obvious, but I never noticed it before. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/34 "2012-01-20T01:34:48Z")
> [@iftheresaway](#): > > Aroy-D’s green curry paste is also shrimp-free. (I knew I had a tub of green paste in there and was all set to prove you wrong. Imagine my chagrin!) The only reason I know that the Yellow Curry paste by Mae Ploy is the only shrimp-free one in their line-up is because it says so on the tub. 🙂 I actually usually use Aroy-D, myself. I didn’t realize that their green curry is without shrimp paste. I have their red curry and massaman curry pastes in my fridge, and neither of those have shrimp paste, either, so I suspect the Aroy-D line comes without shrimp paste by default. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/35 "2012-01-20T01:35:02Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Vegetarians aren’t the same as vegans, true, but vegetarians don’t eat fish. Pescatarians eat fish. Minor nitpick perhaps, but my sister went from omnivore to pescatarian to vegetarian, and she assures me there’s a difference. Given that there’s no official definition, only the way the words are used, this sort of claim is silly. What it does mean is that if someone says they’re vegetarian, and you really want to know the limits of their diet, you’ll need to ask more questions. If you wanted to be a pedant, of course, those vegetarians better not be consuming anything fermented (monera) or made with yeast (fungus), much less any dairy or eggs (animal). ---
**Author:** ![cuberdon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@cuberdon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuberdon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/36 "2012-01-20T01:45:34Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Right – veganism is about more than diet. It’s a moral issue, eschewing theoretically any use of an animal or animal product. Part of the point is not to spend money supporting businesses that use or exploit animals, even if one doesn’t ingest the animals in question. Often but not always. I used to work with a woman who had terrible cholesterol problems who went vegan for health reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/37 "2012-01-20T02:05:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Given that there’s no official definition, only the way the words are used, this sort of claim is silly. What it does mean is that if someone says they’re vegetarian, and you really want to know the limits of their diet, you’ll need to ask more questions. > > If you wanted to be a pedant, of course, those vegetarians better not be consuming anything fermented (monera) or made with yeast (fungus), much less any dairy or eggs (animal). No official definition? Pescetarian may be a [neologism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescetarianism), but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a word: “The Merriam-Webster dictionary dates the origin of the term … to 1993 and defines it to mean: ‘one whose diet includes fish but no meat.’” But hey, people can call themselves whatever they want. I’m not presuming to stop a pescetarian from calling themselves a vegetarian, if they really want to (they’re not being accurate in current English parlance, but someone else’s conflicting diet and word choice is no skin off my nose). Nor am I insisting vegetarians stop eating yeast or mushrooms. But please note, we don’t \*have \*a term for a person who eats vegetables plus yeast or vegetables plus mushrooms. We \*do \*have a term for a person who eats vegetables plus fish. In the interests of accuracy, why shouldn’t we use it? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/38 "2012-01-20T02:24:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, under some systems, the fungi are now lumped with the animals (under Opisthokonta), not with the plants. Does that mean no ‘shrooms for vegans? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If you wanted to be a pedant, of course, those vegetarians better not be consuming anything fermented (monera) or made with yeast (fungus), much less any dairy or eggs (animal). While the taxonomical stuff, as well as the semantic stuff, is all great fun (hey, if I didn’t enjoy some good pedantry as much as the next guy, I wouldn’t be here), I think that it’s important to stress that for most vegetarians / vegans, it’s also mostly beside the point. It’s a bit like when someone tells a vegetarian: “But plants are alive, too. Ah-hah! Gotcha!”. That doesn’t suddenly make eating an apple (or, in my opinion but YMMV, an onion) equivalent to stuffing yourself with hamburgers every day. For most people who avoid eating meat or other animal products, it’s not about playing a classification game or matching any strict definitions. It’s about the very real and very practical matter of reducing suffering. Mushrooms and yeast are not (as far as we know) capable of suffering. Animals, on the other hand, certainly are. However, how far any individual will choose to go, or feel that it is necessary to go, in doing so, will often vary quite a bit, and not everyone is all that concerned about what labels others put on them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/39 "2012-01-20T02:49:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm, no, not at least as far as eggs go, see **pulykamell** ’s definition. So, your “fairly well accepted” is _not._ Pulykamell’s definition doesn’t apply to the context of what I said. And that context isn’t hard to miss since it’s in the same sentence. In fact it’s the first two words of that sentence, “In India.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025/40 "2012-01-20T02:55:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Most vegetarians I’ve met are vegetarian for moral reasons. I’d say that among the vegetarians I know, the ones who “acquired” or vegetarianism (i.e., westerners who made a choice at some point in their lives to become vegetarian, converts) may have done it for moral reasons or for health reasons or both. Among the vegetarians I know who are “cultural” vegetarians (i.e., Indian vegetarians, vegetarians by birth), they are vegetarian first just because they were raised as such, and the morality or health aspects constitute secondary factors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-is-thai-food-vegetarian/610025.md?page=3)