# How the Police See Themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317 "2020-08-29T16:21:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/1 "2020-08-29T16:21:27Z")
I read this article with some curiosity. The majority of police I know personally are very hardworking and decent people. They consider themselves fair. They would acknowledge there are difficulties but feel misunderstood. They also feel they are limited in their ability to complain or personally initiate reform. I would characterize a small number differently. Wonder what folks think of this. > **[How The Police See Issues Of Race And Policing](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-police-see-issues-of-race-and-policing/)** > > UPDATE (August 27, 2020, 2:59 p.m.): We originally published this article earlier this year, after a police officer killed George Floyd in Minneapolis. In light… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/2 "2020-08-29T17:15:15Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > The majority of police I know personally are very hardworking and decent people. They consider themselves fair. They would acknowledge there are difficulties but feel misunderstood. They also feel they are limited in their ability to complain or personally initiate reform. My issue with the “most cops are good people” line is the good cops almost never, ever, bust the bad cops. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/3 "2020-08-29T17:27:47Z")
I used to be related to a career cop through marriage. I have no doubt that he saw himself as one of the good ones but, shortly after he retired, power trip issues became evident. They’ve been divorced for about two decades now. It was messy. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/4 "2020-08-29T17:40:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My issue with the “most cops are good people” line is the good cops almost never, ever, bust the bad cops. and the reason they don’t is that the others will see that as they can no longer be trusted to have each others back. it’s a very thuggish, mob-like mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/5 "2020-08-29T17:53:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My issue with the “most cops are good people” line is the good cops almost never, ever, bust the bad cops. I think I should take that a step further. Not only will the good cops not bust the bad cops the good cops will actively protect the bad cops. So, how can you call them “good” cops? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/6 "2020-08-29T17:58:19Z")
This article is exceptionally interesting: > **[Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop](https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759)** > > I was a police officer for nearly ten years and I was a bastard. We all were. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/7 "2020-08-29T19:14:29Z")
It is an interesting article but a much more negative view than is always applicable. It gives some food for thought. But ultimately it reflects the experiences of one person in one place. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/8 "2020-08-29T19:25:17Z")
I had previously read the article cited by GreenWyvern. Maybe it is just one person’s view, but it is pretty damning. He claims they are trained to see themselves as a conquering army. And yes, where are the good cops when the bad cops do bad things? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/9 "2020-08-29T19:45:54Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > But ultimately it reflects the experiences of one person in one place. 🤨   The the police killings and riots happening in many places in the US suggest that his experience is not atypical. Obviously it varies from place to place, but it seems there are many cities where policing is seriously unacceptable. > **[Mapping Police Violence](https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/)** > > Law enforcement agencies across the country are failing to provide us with even basic information about the lives they take. So we collect the data ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/10 "2020-08-29T19:48:06Z")
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen elsewhere or that some of what he said isn’t practiced. I don’t know to what extent his experiences are relevant in Canada. I am not qualified to comment on American attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/11 "2020-08-29T19:56:08Z")
However, our national paper had this interesting opinion piece today. How did the use of toxic gases developed for war find use in dispersing crowds? Is this reasonable? > **[Opinion: Tears for fears: How did wartime chemicals become a standard part of...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-behind-the-smoke-screen-the-clouded-history-of-tear-gass-journey/?symbol=print-msg)** > > Over the past century, chemical weapons that were made illegal in war have become common tools for police – and the questions about how safe and humane they are have never gone away. Now more than ever, those questions must be raised again ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/12 "2020-08-29T21:59:11Z")
Fascinating read, however, would it be presumptuous of me to ask whether the author’s credentials as former cop have been independently confirmed? Is his name really A. Cab? If not, why the anonymity? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/13 "2020-08-29T22:41:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If not, why the anonymity? Police are aggressively, HUGELY aggressively punitive to other cops who try to enforce the law against other cops. See: [Serpico](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico) (the movie is fine but you can read about it too…50 years later he says they will still mess with him). ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/14 "2020-08-29T23:27:58Z")
Yeah, I’m not buying that “few bad apples” horse shit any more–and I’ve read _Serpico_ back when it was first published and the guy went through hell and probably always has. Cops hold grudges like nobody’s bidness and anyone who has any questions about whether or not most cops are actually okay people is invited to peruse the 40% domestic violence rate amongst law enforcement families. Uh huh. Normal people without issues couldn’t be persuaded to join the police force at gunpoint the way it is now. Which is why I say fire the fucking lot of them, dissolve the police unions and make every cop reapply for their jobs. While we’re at it, make law enforcement a minimum four year degree and every cop who manages to get rehired has six years to get that degree or they’re out–and those degree-less years don’t count toward their pensions. Which pension funds should be used to pay off excessive violence and wrongful death suits. After qualified immunity is completely abolished. Then I might be okay with asking a cop to my house for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/15 "2020-08-30T00:14:51Z")
Can you provide a cite for the 40% claim. That is much higher than I have heard. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/16 "2020-08-30T00:46:02Z")
Police work is important, difficult and necessary. However, I have always been suspect of the motive of people who would choose it. Sure, some read comic books as kids and what to be the hero who returns a stolen bike to a kid. Some are born into it, their father, uncles and grandparents have been in the force and it’s instilled in many facets at an early age. Ok. But other than that, it’s a power dynamic that attracts. So either they were bullied or were bullies at a young age and that became a driving force. 60 fully accredited credits from some discount community college should not be enough for a gun wielding authority the court respects because of the blue outfit they get on graduation. We expect far much more from kindergarten teachers and treat them like crap. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/17 "2020-08-30T01:12:57Z")
There are about 10 million arrests in the U.S. each year. Countless millions of traffic stops and other civilian encounters. The vast majority of them end just fine. In any system with that many interactions, there will always be outliers. So the fact that there are racist cop shootings does not mean that cops are racist as a group. Consider that we live in a society with almost ubiquitous camera coverage, so when something happens that confirms a narrative, it will likely be recorded, and it will likely go viral. If a cop shoots a white guy, it’s far less likely to cause a riot or be spread by the millions on social media. So we are getting somewhat of a distorted view. If we decided tomorrow that children being hit by parents in public was a new social crisis, social media would fill with videos of parents hitting their kids, and we could easily become convinced that it IS an epidemic, even though nothing about parentjng may have changed at all, and the number of kids being hit in public is a tiny percentage, perhaps much less than it used to be. But with tens of millions of kids out in public with parents, you can always find examples of terrible parenting. There are certainly problems with many police departments. Militarizatiin due to free stuff from the military, poor training, poor screening of applicants,etc. Qualified immunity for cops has made some of them indifferent to legality, knowing they can get away with it. Asset forfeiture gives them financial incentives to roust people without cause, fishing for anything that can be used tomconfiscate their stuff. All that should be fixed. At the same time, we should all keep in mind the power of social media to distort reality and create panics. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/18 "2020-08-30T01:17:54Z")
someone on another site I read who was in the Army (deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq) said that police in the US routinely get away with things which would have had him sent to Leavenworth for a very long time had he done them to enemy combatants. The Geneva Convention doesn’t apply when you’re at war with your own fellow citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/19 "2020-08-30T10:10:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My issue with the “most cops are good people” line is the good cops almost never, ever, bust the bad cops. One of my cop uncles (I had five of them) spent the last 15 years on the force on Internal Affairs - the guys who watch the cops. He busted a bunch of bad cops. Also got threats against him and his family from bad cops once in awhile, along with various insults and slurs. I’m sure there was more, but he wasn’t inclined to discuss scary, upsetting stuff with a young niece. I’m guessing a lot of otherwise good cops have some reason to fear the rotten apples and not everyone is willing to be ostracized and despised for doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317/20 "2020-08-30T11:35:12Z")
Yeah and these “good cops” who don’t take on the bad cops can also be called accessories after the fact. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-police-see-themselves/919317.md?page=2)