# How 'the sinner's prayer' became an absolute among some **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996 "2005-05-02T00:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/1 "2005-05-02T00:32:37Z")
Okay, second stab at this topic: this time, no ranting, no debating, no witnessing please, just a question that intrigues me and a scholarly look at an evolution of an idea in our own time!. The ‘sinner’s prayer’ that a person new to Christianity prays- a simple prayer to Jesus in which he asks him to forgive him of sins, come into his life, and guide him as personal lord and saviour- is something that is used quite frequently by primarily fundamentalist evangelical Protestant/Baptist Christians, such as 700 Club, Billy Graham, Jack Chick, etc. In one sense, it is true that this prayer is a simplified version of starting a Christian life. When looking for the history of the prayer, I found out that: > [@FriarTed](#): > > “Praying the Prayer” is the no-frills version of the Altar Call/Invitation which was the Anglican Evangelical 1700s (Whitefield & Wesley) innovation of Peter’s “Baptismal Call” on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. > [@FriarTed](#): > > Historic Christian evangelism linked committing oneself to Christ with entering the church & being baptized. In the 1700s, there was a great concern that many church members were lukewarm & uncommitted. Also, traveling evangelists oftimes preached in areas where no church had yet been established, so the idea was to get a bunch of people saved by committing themselves to Christ, and then they would form a church. Finally, in the 1800s, there was a growth in evangelists who were either connected to no specific church or who were supported by a variety of evangelical churches of different denominations- so the emphasis, again, was not - commit to Christ by joining a church & being baptized, but commit to Christ now in prayer & then find a local church. So now I understand where this prayer- which today can be seen in all kinds of books on our shelves in the Christian section at Barnes and Nobles, and can be heard every day on the 700 Club, in preaches by televangelists, probably on Christian radio, and used by missionaries in far-away countries to enter people into a life with Jesus- truly came from: NECESSITY! It came about not by a great social upheavel (like the Protestant movement) or any interpretation of the New Testament (I will not debate this, but if you read my [other post in GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=313928) you’ll see that we argued that the NT does not contain any _clear_ path to salvation, with exception to Romans: Confess him with your mouth, believe him raised, and you are saved)- no, it came about apparently b/c of social disunity in colonial America necessitated a simple prayer like this! It’s no wonder why it gets used so much today- there are so many people getting witnessed to in so many countries across language, social, political, gender, and other divisions, that there is no central church- except the Catholic church, over half? of the 2 billion Christians, correct? and I think that they are not the ones doing the most witnessing (but correct me and I will not debate at all, I really don’t know and I don’t want to step on toes in this post; but you can see how the idea of Catholics witnessing is not as prominent as the idea of Baptist and other branches witnessing, that’s all)- so the only ‘heart’ of Christianity in these evangelical times is THIS PRAYER, I think! I really do think that’s how important it’s become! And that brings me to my question- there is a certain group of fundamentalist Christians who have come to see this prayer as more than just convenient- they see it as essential for salvation! The only way to be saved, they claim, is to pray this prayer! Read [this recent post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=309990&highlight=pope+hell) and these Chick tracts: [ul] [li][Last Rites](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp)[/li][li][Are Roman Catholics Christians?](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp)[/li][li][The Death Cookie](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp)[/li][li][The Crisis](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0026/0026_01.asp)[/li][/ul] It isn’t just a convenience, as when it began! It is the only way to heaven! If you are a Roman Catholic or Jehovah, for instance, not only do you pervert the gospel, which is bad, but you haven’t truly received Jesus as personal lord and saviour! And therein lies the failure to find salvation, they say… Have you ever read the horrible Left Behind books? In it, the only ones who get raptured are the TRUE Christians who have accepted Jesus as PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR. My question is: can we trace back in time when this prayer started evolving from the 19th-century convenience to a 20th-century convenience AND absolute-for-salvation (for these fundementalists above?) This is a socio-cultural study of the origin of a meme, I think, and it really fascinates me! ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/2 "2005-05-02T01:42:51Z")
There’s not a question mark in that whole thing. So what was thr General Question? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/3 "2005-05-02T01:47:58Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > There’s not a question mark in that whole thing. To the contrary, there are five question marks in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/4 "2005-05-02T02:14:07Z")
I also count five. Check your Washington fuzzy math again. Glad I could be of no help whatsoever. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/5 "2005-05-02T02:49:10Z")
> [@andrewdt85](#): > > My question is: **can we trace back in time when this prayer started evolving from the 19th-century convenience to a 20th-century convenience AND absolute-for-salvation** (for these fundementalists above?) This is a socio-cultural study of the origin of a meme, I think, and it really fascinates me! As in, when did this prayer, which is shown to have originated as a convenience in the 17/1800s, begin being transformed into what fundamentalists are shown to see it as today- an absolutely-requisite prayer to be _saved_? I just have a theory that someone between the 1800s and today decided this prayer, which had become standard in America b/c of the disunity of the churches and absence of churches across America, was the all-important element of Christianity- not the church itself! It’s like, when a meme is handed down over x number of generations, we start to forget why it got started in the first place! So now, instead of just being a convenient way of getting people started in Christianity when they are not part of a set church yet- which it is in many cases today, but stay with me- some fundies hold it up as essential, even if you already belong to a church, such as Catholics or Jehovahs or anyone else, and thus confess jesus as lord and believe god raised him from the dead- it doesn’t matter, you have to pray this personal prayer and accept him as _personal lord and saviour_! That’s my query- let’s try to trace this trend, if we can?!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/6 "2005-05-02T03:01:16Z")
> [@andrewdt85](#): > > Have you ever read the horrible Left Behind books? Personally, no. Okay, I answered the only real question I could find. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/7 "2005-05-02T03:26:33Z")
Is there something about ‘my question is’ that was ambiguous? Or was it the wording of the sentence following? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/8 "2005-05-02T04:38:12Z")
I don’t know the answer to your question, and I can’t speak for others but let me suggest this: First of all, there’s a good chance that no one who has read the question knows the answer. But perhaps more significant, it’s way too much work to find the question. One has to wade through paragraphs of description, references, quotes, links, etc. to even get to it, and even then the question mark is buried in parentheses and the question is followed with more irrelevant (to the potential answerer) declarations. I’d speculate that 99% of those who might have had the answer gave up trying to find the question. If you really want an answer, try asking the question in one concise sentence that gets to the point, e.g. “When/how did this prayer [link to prayer] acquire its modern character as a standard/necessity for certain Christian sects?” Leave observations, opinions, tangential issues, everything else out of the picture. I think that will greatly increase your chance for success. I’m serious – one sentence, nothing else. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/9 "2005-05-02T05:03:41Z")
**Andrewt85** _My question is: can we trace back in time when this prayer started evolving from the 19th-century convenience to a 20th-century convenience AND absolute-for-salvation (for these fundementalists above?)_ No. ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/10 "2005-05-02T13:30:24Z")
Yeah, here’s the thing about this GQ query: - it’s such a hard concept I felt it needed all that explanation - I already knew it was probably impossible to get what I wanted- unless we had a 100 year Doper who remembered the prayer being absolute during WW1 and 2!- but I wanted to get my theory out there, b/c I don’t think that most people- especially not those who have used this prayer- have ever considered it. I guess my question is, where could I pitch my theory? Or better yet, do any of you have 100 year old fundamentalist grandparents you could ask about the prayer? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/11 "2005-05-02T14:07:33Z")
I believe that your question is based on a false premise. Chick tracts are a poor source for information about Christianity, even evangelical fundamentalist Christianity. As to it’s “necessity” for non-Chick devotees, I’d suggest you are exaggerating. To the extent it’s common and urged on new converts may, in the absence of other evidence, simply a matter of convenience. Consider this: The actual wording of the familiar “Miranda warning” (You have the right to remain silent, anything you say…) is not required by the Supreme Court’s Miranda v. Arizona decision. The decision simply says that all the stuff in what is now known as a Miranda warning must be communicated to defendants at a certain point. But rather than futz around with different wording, virtually all police departments took the wording right from the decision. It was simple, everyone agreed on it and it ensured that all the necessary information was being communicated. So it became a standard. Everyone agrees that there probably exists another set of words which fits the requirements of the Supreme Court, but no one really bothers to try to find that other set because the existing set works so well. Might that be the case with this prayer? ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/12 "2005-05-02T15:56:02Z")
Absolutely- that _is_ the case with this prayer. It’s not a particular prayer with certain words that is repeated all over the place- there’s no such one. It’s just a _type_ of prayer in which you _have_ to [ul] [li]accept Jesus as _personal lord and saviour_[/li][li]and possibly repent of sins[/li][/ul] I can’t think of a good analogy; your Miranda rights one does not fit what I describe. It’s as if people started praying this prayer b/c it was a good way of getting people _started_ in Christianity, and over time it (the prayer in which you accept Jesus as _personal lord and saviour_) has become more important than already being in a church and/or already believing Jesus is lord and is raised in the first place! ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/13 "2005-05-02T16:05:03Z")
And as for the idea that I’m exaggerating, you could be right- but I know that there is a significant number of fund. Christians who believe in the personal-salvation doctrine. I refer to [ul] [li]This recent [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=309990&highlight=pope+hell), which I have linked to way too many times![/li][li]The popularity of the Left Behind books; the philosophy of their two writers and the Christians who believe them is that only true accepters of Jesus are saved[/li][li]A lot of other fund. believe in the ‘personal lord and saviour’ doctrine too, don’t they?[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-the-sinners-prayer-became-an-absolute-among-some/301996/14 "2005-05-02T19:18:01Z")
Every christian that I know in RL believes your third point **andrewdt85**.