# How Timothy Leary is thought of in the mainstream psychology community? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760 "2015-02-03T20:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/1 "2015-02-03T20:51:49Z")
While being famous as a counter culture and LSD guru [Timothy Leary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary), was at least by trade a psychologist. Did he actually achieve anything that mainstream psychologists, who don’t wear tie-dye and smell of patchouli, would consider new or ground breaking? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/2 "2015-02-03T20:59:20Z")
He came up with the [Eight-Circuit Model of Consciousness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness), but I don’t think it ever gained wide acceptance in the psychological community. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/3 "2015-02-03T21:20:19Z")
It would appear that he achieved a level of success, and was well-regarded at the time (that is, prior to his LSD-guru-dom) for his research. He’d be a footnote in a text somewhere. From his wiki article: > [@](#): > > His early work in psychology expanded on the research of Harry Stack Sullivan and Karen Horney regarding the importance of interpersonal forces in mental health, focusing on how understanding interpersonal processes might facilitate diagnosing disorders and identifying human personality patterns. He developed a complex and respected interpersonal circumplex model, published in The Interpersonal Diagnosis of Personality,[13] demonstrating how psychologists could methodically use Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) scores to predict respondents’ interpersonal response characteristics, or ways they might respond to various interpersonal situations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/4 "2015-02-03T22:11:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > (that is, prior to his LSD-guru-dom) Now that I’ve dropped out Why is life dreary, dreary? Answer my weary query, Timothy Leary theory! Manchester England, England . . . – _Hair_ ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/5 "2015-02-04T07:32:16Z")
This doesn’t really answer your question, but the prominent pro-LSD types these days do not “wear tie-dye and smell of patchouli.” They’re plain ol’ researchers, psychologists, psychiatrists and the like, and, as is their wont, they perform real and serious research, without all the “counter-cultural” baggage Leary carried around with him. The results over the last decade or so are pretty neat. The stuff shows real promise. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/6 "2015-02-04T09:24:57Z")
Wonderful article [here](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment), on the state of modern (American) research into psychedelics. Here’s the thread-relevant bit, mentioning Leary: > [@](#): > > The first wave of research into psychedelics was doomed by an excessive exuberance about their potential. For people working with these remarkable molecules, it was difficult not to conclude that they were suddenly in possession of news with the power to change the world—a psychedelic gospel. They found it hard to justify confining these drugs to the laboratory or using them only for the benefit of the sick. **It didn’t take long for once respectable scientists such as Leary to grow impatient with the rigmarole of objective science. He came to see science as just another societal “game,” a conventional box it was time to blow up—along with all the others.** It’s definitely worth reading in its entirety, though. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/7 "2015-02-04T10:16:34Z")
Thanks Steken, for that link! ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/8 "2015-02-04T11:51:35Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Thanks Steken, for that link! No problem! Great read, no? I’ll admit to tearing up a couple of times. When the cancer patients, in the midst of their trips, “see” their cancer… That was real strong stuff, I think. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/9 "2015-02-04T18:36:38Z")
Timothy Leary’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/10 "2015-02-04T18:43:19Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Timothy Leary’s dead. No, he’s outside looking in. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/11 "2015-02-04T20:51:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He came up with the [Eight-Circuit Model of Consciousness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness), but I don’t think it ever gained wide acceptance in the psychological community. Has it gained **any** such acceptance, I wonder? The article doesn’t say one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/12 "2015-02-04T22:04:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > While being famous as a counter culture and LSD guru [Timothy Leary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary), was at least by trade a psychologist. > > Did he actually achieve anything that mainstream psychologists, who don’t wear tie-dye and smell of patchouli, would consider new or ground breaking? No. At least nothing that current psychologists find relevant or useful. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/13 "2015-02-04T23:52:56Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > This doesn’t really answer your question, but the prominent pro-LSD types these days do not “wear tie-dye and smell of patchouli.” They’re plain ol’ researchers, psychologists, psychiatrists and the like, and, as is their wont, they perform real and serious research, without all the “counter-cultural” baggage Leary carried around with him. > > The results over the last decade or so are pretty neat. The stuff shows real promise. I don’t think that the “tie-dye and patchouli” was meant to be part of a legal description, or for a peer-reviewed journal… ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/14 "2015-02-05T04:15:47Z")
I won’t accept any articles for my psychology publication unless the paper is tie-dyed and stinks of patchouli. If it doesn’t, we know it isn’t a local author. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/15 "2015-02-05T04:43:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He came up with the [Eight-Circuit Model of Consciousness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness), but I don’t think it ever gained wide acceptance in the psychological community. Is the implication of that model that alcoholics operate on a toddler level? Coffee addicts and smokers are mentally young children? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/16 "2015-02-05T07:03:45Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I don’t think that the “tie-dye and patchouli” was meant to be part of a legal description, or for a peer-reviewed > journal… You missed my larger point: The pro-LSD faction ain’t all hippies no more. [Read the article.](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/17 "2015-02-05T15:30:21Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Is the implication of that model that alcoholics operate on a toddler level? Coffee addicts and smokers are mentally young children? Isn’t that obvious? 😉 _gulp_ _puff_ ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/18 "2015-02-05T18:40:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Isn’t that obvious? 😉 > > _gulp_ > > _puff_ Yes, just inviting discussion. So Leary is basically saying that the establishment with their martinis and cigarettes are immature children, and the pot-smoking anti-establishment are the real adults. Another idea here is that the establishment is left-brain thinking and the freethinkers are right-brained. But the traditional psychology places emotions in the right brain which doesn’t agree with Leary’s assignment of Neuro-Emotional Level 2 to the left-brain hive. (Modern psychology states that the dichotomy is a myth.) ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/19 "2015-02-05T19:01:22Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Wonderful article [here](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment), on the state of modern (American) research into psychedelics. Very interesting, thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760/20 "2015-02-06T06:47:09Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > You missed my larger point: The pro-LSD faction ain’t all hippies no more. [Read the article.](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment) You missed my fucking point: the phrase quoted was a fucking joke\*. A FUCKING JOKE. \* Fucking Joke explanation fucking ensues: Tie dye clothing and the patchouli popularity originated in the late 1960s, early 1970s, as part of the hippie movement. The world has moved on from those as well as the blacklights and the Nehru jacket. Any reference tying the aforementioned products with drugs is by necessity a joke, since, **everybody knows** (Operative Phrase) that patchouli and tie-dye clothing, and blacklight posters, and Mod Jackets and Peter Max posters, and love beads, and peace signs and hippie vans with murals on the sides, and love-ins and Twiggy, formerly (Operative Word) linked with LSD have gone into oblivion. The humor juxtaposes everybody’s knowledge of same with today’s modern attitudes and understanding of the TD&P and LSD usage in times past. **See also: Birkenstock.** In short, my post was because I, and probably everybody else in the world since the Ford Pinto was created, knows that it isn’t only tie-dyed and patchouli wearing hippies that use/study/sell/wtf LSD. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-timothy-leary-is-thought-of-in-the-mainstream-psychology-community/711760.md?page=2)