# How to be a liberal in a Trump world **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840 "2016-12-16T05:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/81 "2016-12-18T09:22:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > For those choosing for some reason to discount Trump’s exemplary record of hiring female executives because one of them turned against him after a 19 year career, I give you these words from Trump’s daughter Ivanka: And what more unbiased source could you ask for than the man’s own daughter? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/82 "2016-12-18T09:33:44Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Honestly, I think the liberal rendering of loins around here is funny as all get out. It’s like when Obama got elected and those crazy Repubs were just sure Obama was going to take their guns and put them in reeducation camps and crown himself king and the UN was going to take over and blah blah blah. > > The difference being…those Repubs were say 5 percent of your general Repub and the rest of us were eyerolling so hard our retinas got torn. The other difference being that Obama was a sane, qualified presidential candidate with a bunch of realistic ideas and plans. There was no reason then to believe he would be a bad president, and the last eight years have essentially born that out. Despite unprecedented opposition, Obama has been a pretty darn good president. Oh, and by the way? Half of republicans weren’t convinced Obama was a US citizen. This is as recently as _[January of this year](https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/01/11/poll-results-cruz-birth/)_. A quarter of them were convinced he wasn’t - and the figurehead of that movement became the party’s nominee. You don’t get to minimize the abject insanity coming out of your side for the last 8 years. You don’t get to pretend that the republicans are the sane ones, and the democrats are the crazies for losing their shit over the fact that _you guys_ elected an unqualified, corrupt reality TV star to the highest office in the land. > [@](#): > > But around here, the sky is falling Democrat is more like a large fraction if not an actual majority. Yeah. Donald Trump is president-elect, and in some bizarre way his choices thus far have been _even worse_ than advertised in the election. If you’re not scared, you’re not paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/83 "2016-12-18T09:38:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And what more unbiased source could you ask for than the man’s own daughter? > > :dubious: How could bias play into it? It was a simple statement of fact. Either she’s telling the truth or she’s lying, and given the MSM’s eagerness to do Trump in, I can’t imagine she’d tell such an easily refutable lie in front of a nationwide audience. (IIRC she said that at the Republican Convention.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/84 "2016-12-18T10:09:48Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Honestly, I think the liberal rendering of loins around here is funny as all get out. It’s like when Obama got elected and those crazy Repubs were just sure Obama was going to take their guns and put them in reeducation camps and crown himself king and the UN was going to take over and blah blah blah… I was unemployed for nearly five years thanks to the last idiot Republican warmonger that occupied the White House crashing the economy. We don’t need paranoid fantasies to be terrified of a Trump presidency, we just have to look at what actually happened when Bush was president. And Bush is Benjamin fucking Disraeli next to Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/85 "2016-12-18T15:34:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I was unemployed for nearly five years… And you think that was the president’s fault? Could you elaborate on that a bit? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/86 "2016-12-18T15:38:25Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You don’t get to pretend that the republicans are the sane ones, and the democrats are the crazies for losing their shit over the fact that _you guys_ elected an unqualified, corrupt reality TV star to the highest office in the land. But they have lost their shit, more fully and completely than when Bush won. You don’t get to pretend that hasn’t been happening for the last few weeks. It’s hysteria coming from the Democrats side right now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/87 "2016-12-18T16:02:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But they have lost their shit, more fully and completely than when Bush won. You don’t get to pretend that hasn’t been happening for the last few weeks. It’s hysteria coming from the Democrats side right now. :rolleyes: Yep, ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately for you (and well, all Americans) the Democrats were correct about the disaster Bush the lesser was going to be. I would give them more credit than your unhistorical opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/88 "2016-12-18T16:14:27Z")
> [@Colleen7242664](#): > > Hello, > > I’ve been reading posts in this forum for a while. It feels like an intelligent group contributing to smart conversation. I suppose that’s why I feel safe to post. I guess I’ll find out. > > First, I’ve been a Democrat my entire life. My parents are blue collar. I lived 15 years in Los Angeles. Recently I moved back to Ohio, my home state. I voted for Hillary. I was excited about the prospect of a woman winning the presidency. I generally agree with the principles on the left. I am starting to see that I was naive, refusing to believe that Hillary was really as flawed a candidate as she turned out to be. > > I admit that I for the most part live in a liberal bubble. My contacts on social media, much of the news I ingest, most lean left. As much triumph and hope that Trump supporters feel, the same sentiment is swirling as strongly on the left, but the opposite. Many including myself feel despair and fear. Friends in my circle appear to be turning even more inward, deeper into that bubble. I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to not spend any time trying to understand the more conservative viewpoint. I don’t want to blanket label Trump voters as racists, as everyone around me seems to be doing. I want to feel hopeful about the new administration. > > Is it possible to have “liberal” principles and at the same time begin to still feel some optimism about the changes coming? Right now I just feel fear, and I don’t know how much I should really be scared vs how much I’m being swayed by my sphere of influence. This amazes me. It is representative of the mood and tone of this board and all of liberal America right now. When Obama was elected, you didn’t see this kind of stuff. The conservatives didn’t riot in the streets, they didn’t try to coerce electors to change their votes, they didn’t run around in circles like Chicken Little, wringing their hands while they whimpered that the sky was falling. We sure as hell didn’t need safe spaces. All we did was point out that liberals elected a complete incompetent to the White House. Eight years later, with the power of 20-20 hindsight, we have been proven correct. Guess what? We survived. We bitched and muttered and grumbled, but we carried on with our lives and made do the best we could. Instead of worrying about how to be a liberal in a Trump world, you guys might try being adults in the real world. That would be better for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/89 "2016-12-18T16:57:52Z")
Correct? Well, I guess a sorry point that Obama “was incompetent” in the end needs to add a wanting reason why is that America is in better shape now than when he took office to prop up that point. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/90 "2016-12-18T17:23:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When Obama was elected, you didn’t see this kind of stuff. The conservatives didn’t riot in the streets… Kettle: no more calling the pot black, alright? > **[Here's how America 'peacefully' responded to Obama's first election](https://cafemom.com/news/america-responds-obama)** > > In light of the anti-Trump protests raging all over the US, here's a reminder of how Americans responded to the election of Barack Obama in 2008. > **[Right-Wing Media React To Obama's Re-Election: War, Impeachment, Revolution](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-friends/right-wing-media-react-obamas-re-election-war-impeachment-revolution)** > > In the wake of President Obama's re-election, right-wing media outlets and figures compared the president to a dictator, called for a revolution, and baselessly suggested impeachment. > [@](#): > > [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com): “The War Begins Now.” > [@Clothahump](#): > > …they didn’t try to coerce electors to change their votes. > **[Democrats just filed a federal lawsuit accusing the Republican National...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/27/13431540/republican-voter-intimidation-suppression)** > > Trump and his allies might have put the RNC on the wrong side of a 34-year-old court order. > [@](#): > > Some followers plan to do this entrepreneurially, to “go right up behind” voters who look like they might not be US citizens. But the campaign also appears to be organizing official “Trump Election Observers” — or at least it’s asking for volunteers for such a position on its website. > [@Clothahump](#): > > …they didn’t run around in circles like Chicken Little, wringing their hands while they whimpered that the sky was falling… and yet more tea-kettle/pottery gets you tolchok #2,737,248: > **[Freaking Out: The Best of the Worst Responses to Obama's Win](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/freaking-out-the-best-of-the-worst-responses-to-obamas-win/)** > > Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news. > [@](#): > > “I can’t stop crying. America died.” - Victoria Jackson (@vicjackshow) November 7, 2012… > But not all is lost: > “America’s dead but Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.” - Victoria Jackson (@vicjackshow) November 8, 2012 ok I’m getting bored parsing everything you’re trying to put past us. I probably didn’t get through to you again, but incremental progress is better than nothing, I spose. yawn. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/91 "2016-12-18T17:39:26Z")
Do those cites for “riot in the streets” just suck or did I miss something? I don’t see any windows being smashed or objects being thrown. Where’s the riot? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/92 "2016-12-18T17:59:26Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > [Democrats just filed a federal lawsuit accusing the Republican National Committee of voter intimidation | Vox](http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/27/13431540/republican-voter-intimidation-suppression) What does your link have to do with coercing electors to change their votes? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/93 "2016-12-18T18:04:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do those cites for “riot in the streets” just suck or did I miss something? I don’t see any windows being smashed or objects being thrown. Where’s the riot? Besides trying to go for the violent nuts on the left that do not represent all, (most protests against Trump have been peaceful BTW) you are also forgetting a lot of what took place when Obama won. [http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305749-republicans-employ-double-standard-to-discredit](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305749-republicans-employ-double-standard-to-discredit) > [@](#): > > According to conservatives on social media, “Republicans have jobs and responsibilities” and therefore couldn’t engage in civil disobedience to voice their discontent with the 2008 and 2012 elections. With this perception of the Obama elections and subsequent claims of “ Republican acceptance,” Trump supporters are now demanding the same “fairness” for Donald J. Trump’s presidency, “We sat through do nothing politics for 8 years, the least they can do is go shut up and sit in the corner for 8 themselves,” on Trump supporter explained. > > However, these perceptions do not reflect what actually followed the election of our country’s first black president, much less the difference between why people are protesting Donald J. Trump’s presidency as compared to Barack Obama’s presidency. > > Obama’s election in 2008 was preceded and followed by violent attacks and property destruction targeted against minorities. > > Kaylon Johnson, an African American campaign worker for Obama, was physically assaulted for wearing an Obama T-shirt in Louisiana following the 2008 election. The three white male attackers shouted “Fuck Obama!” and “Nigger president!” as they broke Johnson’s nose and fractured his eye-socket, requiring surgery. > > More frequently, Obama’s presidency was marked by effigies of our first black president hanging from nooses across the country, for example in Kentucky, Washington State, and Maine, or being burned around the world. What Trump supporters fail to remember is that following Obama’s election, property was destroyed across the country, for example in Pennsylvania, Texas, and North Carolina, and a predominately black church was torched in Massachusetts. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, demonstrators are not protesting Trump because he is Republican. They aren’t protesting him because he is a white male. These protests are because of the bigotry his campaign has emboldened and the fear of discrimination his presidency has the capacity to perpetuate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/94 "2016-12-18T18:10:01Z")
Gigo, i’m on my phone, so I can’t quote or format, but maybe you can clarify for me: is your post an admission that “conservatives didn’t riot in the streets”? Or do you think you’re offering evidence that they did? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/95 "2016-12-18T18:25:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Gigo, i’m on my phone, so I can’t quote or format, but maybe you can clarify for me: is your post an admission that “conservatives didn’t riot in the streets”? Or do you think you’re offering evidence that they did? You are not even wrong, My point is that doing [nutpickings](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nutpicking) is not really a good argument. Nevertheless, a lot of violence launched towards minorities and democrats can not be just denied, for if we do want to look at riots in the streets, shootings and killings at churches or other places by people that consume right wing or extreme right wing rhetoric then should be considered. If you want to follow that line of an argument, but I do think that we should not. So, some elements of the right have also resorted to violence, but it is really ineffective as the few extremists on the left are doing. What it is important is to not forget that most of the powerful can sponsor propaganda and politicians that did minimize what that “uppity guy” was doing in the white house. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/96 "2016-12-18T18:26:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do those cites for “riot in the streets” just suck or did I miss something? I don’t see any windows being smashed or objects being thrown. Where’s the riot? Fair enough - I’ll grant that the actions in Portland were more problemmatic than Obama effigies, (as well as this: [Orcinus: When Obama Was Elected: An Outpouring of Hate in 2008](http://dneiwert.blogspot.ca/2016/11/when-obama-was-elected-outpouring-of.html) …read from half-way down) > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What does your link have to do with coercing electors to change their votes? Yeah? But that quote, though? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/97 "2016-12-18T19:01:09Z")
EDIT: WTF, why’d this get posted? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/98 "2016-12-18T19:31:27Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > Fair enough - I’ll grant that the actions in Portland were more problemmatic than Obama effigies, (as well as this: [Orcinus: When Obama Was Elected: An Outpouring of Hate in 2008](http://dneiwert.blogspot.ca/2016/11/when-obama-was-elected-outpouring-of.html) …read from half-way down) > > Yeah? But that quote, though? A Poster made a comment about coercing electors to change their votes. In response, YOU posted a link talking about (alleged) voter suppression. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/99 "2016-12-18T19:59:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When Obama was elected, you didn’t see this kind of stuff. The conservatives didn’t riot in the streets, they didn’t try to coerce electors to change their votes, they didn’t run around in circles like Chicken Little, wringing their hands while they whimpered that the sky was falling. That’s because we elected an extremely thoughtful, intelligent, and rational human being and you elected a fucking impulsive irrational bigoted moron. It is a ridiculous comparison. Even a lot of Republican leaders have said this man is completely unqualified to be President. The alternative that has been suggested for the electoral college is Kasich…It is sure as hell not because we think Kasich is great or a closet liberal. He is clearly very conservative but he is at least not bat-shit borderline insane. Get a fucking clue!! ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/100 "2016-12-18T20:08:06Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Eight years later, with the power of 20-20 hindsight, we have been proven correct. Yes, I can appreciate all of the horrors you have had to endure over the past 8 years. I can imagine the pain you have experienced with each 1% drop in the unemployment rate, each 1000 point rise in the Dow, each uninsured person gaining health insurance, and each poll showing foreigners now having respect for our President and our nation. The trauma must have been very difficult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840.md?page=6)