# How to be a liberal in a Trump world **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840 "2016-12-16T05:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/101 "2016-12-18T20:10:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > A Poster made a comment about coercing electors to change their votes. > > In response, YOU posted a link talking about (alleged) voter suppression. WTF? While the voter suppression was most definitely not alleged, I figured I’d take it upon myself, then, to reverse things by looking for info to support the idea that there _was_ coercion of, yes, electors, and came up with: [http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/309881-coercing-the-electors-the-framers-saw-it-coming-two](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/309881-coercing-the-electors-the-framers-saw-it-coming-two) > [@](#): > > Most alarming, however, has been the effort by some to intimidate and coerce electors duly designated in a handful of states to change their vote when they cast them in less than three weeks. Yet the article doesn’t go on to provide any examples. And perfectly legitimate for Micheal Baca to stump for a more moderate rep. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/102 "2016-12-18T20:27:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But they have lost their shit, more fully and completely than when Bush won. You don’t get to pretend that hasn’t been happening for the last few weeks. It’s hysteria coming from the Democrats side right now. It’s not hysteria when it’s justified. The president of the united states is utterly unqualified for the job, shows no interest in learning, and is _already_ starting diplomatic incidents, while showing no indication that he either understands the issues at hand _or_ is interested in learning. His cabinet picks mirror his ability. “Hysteria”? If you’re not scared, you aren’t paying attention. > [@Clothahump](#): > > When Obama was elected, you didn’t see this kind of stuff. And once again, the comparison between Obama (a qualified, competent politician with a stable temperament and a clear understanding of the law, who ran on a campaign of unity and progress) and Trump (an unqualified, incompetent political neophyte with the temperament of a five-year-old and _no_ understanding of the law, who ran on a campaign of hate and scapegoating) is utterly misguided. Trump is something new and very ugly in American politics. It’s entirely understandable that people are freaking out about this. Or, to put it another way: the critique lobbed at Trump by high-ranking people within his own party utterly outstrips the critique any other republican has gotten from any mainstream democrat. Because they understand full well how _awful_ this is. > [@](#): > > The conservatives didn’t riot in the streets, they didn’t try to coerce electors to change their votes, they didn’t run around in circles like Chicken Little, wringing their hands while they whimpered that the sky was falling. We sure as hell didn’t need safe spaces. All we did was point out that liberals elected a complete incompetent to the White House. Eight years later, with the power of 20-20 hindsight, we have been proven correct. Obama has an approval rating above 50%. The general feeling around the country was that we would have been better off with a third term from him than either of the candidates who ran. He presided over 8 years of consistent growth, despite unprecedented obstruction from an opposition party that used _everything_ available to them to push their agenda. And now, the country is _undeniably_ in a better place, economically, than it was 8 years ago. We’ve made great strides on LGBT rights. We’re out of Iraq, and we haven’t embroiled ourselves in any more costly wars. Disaster relief efforts were prompt and appropriate. Millions of people who weren’t able to get health care before are now insured. To put it bluntly, the USA _got better_. Your hindsight is not “20-20” and may in fact need surgical correction, as at the moment is could be considered legally blind. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/103 "2016-12-18T21:25:34Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Get a fucking clue!! Get a fucking grip!!! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/104 "2016-12-18T21:26:46Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > … each poll showing foreigners now having respect for our President and our nation. Just because I’m curious, cite? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/105 "2016-12-18T22:18:49Z")
[Cite 1](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/) [Cite 2](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2016/06/29/Obama-US-Clinton-enjoy-high-ratings-around-world-confidence-in-Trump-low/5681467221664/) [And a trifecta](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/28/barack-obama/mostly-true-obama-says-world-opinion-us-better-now/) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/106 "2016-12-18T22:25:03Z")
Budget Player Cadet, Your last post needed a fact check because some of it is just blatantly false: > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > He presided over 8 years of consistent growth [False](https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm), at least by the way I’m accustomed to measuring it, quarterly. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We’re out of Iraq, and we haven’t embroiled ourselves in any more costly wars. False again: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/obama-troops-iraq.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/obama-troops-iraq.html) > **[Army to Deploy 1st Infantry Division Soldiers to Iraq](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/10/14/army-deploy-1st-infantry-division-soldiers-iraq.html)** > > The U.S. Army announced Friday it will deploy about 500 soldiers from the Big Red One to Iraq this fall. > **[Army announces Iraq deployment for 1,700 soldiers](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2016/11/03/army-announces-iraq-deployment-for-1700-soldiers/)** > > About 1,700 soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division will deploy this winter to Iraq, the Army announced Thursday. He has also gotten us involved in wars / fighting in Syria, Libya, and Yemen during his administration. Since the fighting is still ongoing in Syria, I think it’s still to be determined if that amounts to a “costly” war or not. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/107 "2016-12-18T22:29:46Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > [Cite 1](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/) > > [Cite 2](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2016/06/29/Obama-US-Clinton-enjoy-high-ratings-around-world-confidence-in-Trump-low/5681467221664/) > > [And a trifecta](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/28/barack-obama/mostly-true-obama-says-world-opinion-us-better-now/) Thanks ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/108 "2016-12-18T22:34:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Budget Player Cadet, > > Your last post needed a fact check because some of it is just blatantly false: > [False](https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm), at least by the way I’m accustomed to measuring it, quarterly. So, measuring that way, you are saying that 15 out of 16 quarters is not consistent? Take a look at [this graph](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp), and tell me how horrible the Obama economy is doing again. Your interpretation of BPC’s claim needs some work. > [@](#): > > False again: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/obama-troops-iraq.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/middleeast/obama-troops-iraq.html) > > [http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/10/14/army-deploy-1st-infantry-division-soldiers-iraq.html](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/10/14/army-deploy-1st-infantry-division-soldiers-iraq.html) > > [Army announces Iraq deployment for 1,700 soldiers](https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-announces-iraq-deployment-for-1-700-soldiers) > > He has also gotten us involved in wars / fighting in Syria, Libya, and Yemen during his administration. Since the fighting is still ongoing in Syria, I think it’s still to be determined if that amounts to a “costly” war or not. Wars get “costly” when we start committing large numbers of troops. Obama has not done that. Flying some planes overhead and dropping bombs, sending in a few special forces here and there is a completely different thing than invading a country like we did with Iraq. Do you see the difference there, or is this some sort of false equivalence game you are playing? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/109 "2016-12-18T22:44:27Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > While the voter suppression was most definitely not alleged, I figured I’d take it upon myself, then, to reverse things by looking for info to support the idea that there _was_ coercion of, yes, electors, and came up with: > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/309881-coercing-the-electors-the-framers-saw-it-coming-two](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/309881-coercing-the-electors-the-framers-saw-it-coming-two) I still don’t understand why you responded to a post about coercion of electors with a “cite” about voter suppression. Voters and electors are not the same thing. Didn’t you know that? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/110 "2016-12-18T22:50:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, measuring that way, you are saying that 15 out of 16 quarters is not consistent? Take a look at [this graph](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp), and tell me how horrible the Obama economy is doing again. Your interpretation of BPC’s claim needs some work. [Here’s a graph for you too](https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/). I’m not claiming that the economy is terrible. It’s generally puttering along moderately well. Mine was a specific criticism. I don’t think it can be accurately called “8 years of consistent growth”. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Wars get “costly” when we start committing large numbers of troops. Obama has not done that. > > Flying some planes overhead and dropping bombs, sending in a few special forces here and there is a completely different thing than invading a country like we did with Iraq. Do you see the difference there, or is this some sort of false equivalence game you are playing? Again, you’re trying to expand my fairly specific criticism into some broader argument against Obama. The statement “We’re out of Iraq” is a simple easily-verified falsehood / inaccuracy. We don’t have as many men deployed there as we did during the Bush administration, but we’re not “out”. And it’s a whole lot more than “a few special forces here and there”. ETA: k9bfriender, just curious, how much do you think the USA has spent on our Syrian intervention so far? This isn’t a trick question. I don’t know the answer yet either, I’m just curious what your guess would be. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/111 "2016-12-18T23:03:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The statement “We’re out of Iraq” is a simple easily-verified falsehood / inaccuracy. IS this the war that Bush lied to get us into, that cost us 2 trillion dollars, and resulted in the deaths of a hundred thousand innocent civilians? That war? Boy, that Bush sure was a great president. And Trump will be worse! Yaaay! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/112 "2016-12-18T23:11:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Here’s a graph for you too](https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/). I’m not claiming that the economy is terrible. It’s generally puttering along moderately well. Mine was a specific criticism. I don’t think it can be accurately called “8 years of consistent growth”. Out of those 8 years, you have 2 quarters, both in the first quarter of the year (which is historically the weakest quarter of the year), where there was not growth from one to the next, both of which were far more than made up by by the following quarter. That’s pretty consistent. Now, if he had said constant, then your nitpick may have some merit. And you said “blatantly false”, when at worst you could say is “I have a specific nitpick with your claim.” > [@](#): > > Again, you’re trying to expand my fairly specific criticism into some broader argument against Obama. The statement “We’re out of Iraq” is a simple easily-verified falsehood / inaccuracy. We don’t have as many men deployed there as we did during the Bush administration, but we’re not “out”. And it’s a whole lot more than “a few special forces here and there”. > > ETA: k9bfriender, just curious, how much do you think the USA has spent on our Syrian intervention so far? This isn’t a trick question. I don’t know the answer yet either, I’m just curious what your guess would be. I have no idea what we have spent, especially when you contrast that with what we would have spent just keeping our military on it’s normal readiness standby. We are dropping bombs and doing missions there, but we also drop bombs and do missions in the States for practice. But, if we haven’t spent some numbers of billions, I would be surprised. I do know that we spent much more in iraq. I do know that we had much higher casualties in iraq. Compared to the full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq, yeah, it is just some special forces here and there. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/113 "2016-12-18T23:19:45Z")
Sure, I dropped the ball with some weak links and then inexcusably stupidly mixed up voters with electors (and I don’t even have any hungover reason) (a weird one, today’s been). Regardless, my self-correction offset part of that fumble. > [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > … looking for info to support the idea that there _was_ coercion of, yes, **electors** , and came up with… > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Voters and electors are not the same thing. Didn’t you know that? bolding mine. Yes, as I indicated the distinction there. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/114 "2016-12-19T10:46:44Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This amazes me. It is representative of the mood and tone of this board and all of liberal America right now. > > When Obama was elected, you didn’t see this kind of stuff. The conservatives didn’t riot in the streets, they didn’t try to coerce electors to change their votes, they didn’t run around in circles like Chicken Little, wringing their hands while they whimpered that the sky was falling. We sure as hell didn’t need safe spaces. All we did was point out that liberals elected a complete incompetent to the White House. Eight years later, with the power of 20-20 hindsight, we have been proven correct. > > Guess what? We survived. We bitched and muttered and grumbled, but we carried on with our lives and made do the best we could. > > Instead of worrying about how to be a liberal in a Trump world, you guys might try being adults in the real world. That would be better for everyone. Yes, liberals should emulate the level of maturity Trump supporters have demonstrated. You’d never catch conservatives being [vicious, violent and screaming](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-tries-to-calm-his-vicious-violent-screaming-supporters-a7481416.html)… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/115 "2016-12-19T13:06:42Z")
I know I’d feel better if Trump’s policy plan wasn’t titled _To Serve America_. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/116 "2016-12-19T13:26:14Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > That’s because we elected an extremely thoughtful, intelligent, and rational human being and you elected a fucking impulsive irrational bigoted moron. It is a ridiculous comparison. Even a lot of Republican leaders have said this man is completely unqualified to be President. The alternative that has been suggested for the electoral college is Kasich…It is sure as hell not because we think Kasich is great or a closet liberal. He is clearly very conservative but he is at least not bat-shit borderline insane. > > Get a fucking clue!! That’s way too much for Elections. You’ll earn a warning for this one, jshore. Please don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/117 "2016-12-19T14:24:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s easy to be a liberal in Trump’s world. I was a conservative in Obama’s. Elections are just one event in the political process. They are the most important event, but far from the final word. Democrats still have the power to stop some of Trump’s agenda, and state Dem AGs are already gearing up to file lawsuits when Trump does things that are legally questionable. Democrats will also call for investigations and some AGs with jurisdiction will also do investigations. > > Everything is going to work exactly as it should over the next four years. Keep fighting for what you believe in, turn out in the freakin’ midterms for once, and by all that’s holy, nominate a CLEAN outsider Democrat who won’t be such an easy foil for Trump the way Clinton was. No, don’t worry about the inevitable jerking-conservative, anti-personal rights, environment-be-damned, business-is-God swing that the country is about to take. Just relax and enjoy the fucking. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/118 "2016-12-19T14:51:29Z")
I just love how the right-supporters’ only argument here is “You’re crazy, you’re overreacting, everything’s gonna be alright.” Followed by how civilized conseratives were after Obama got elected. Uh, yeah. Please tell me a few more whoppers. Sorry, it doesn’t fly. Trump is a joke, and he and his Breitbart-induced cronies WILL turn this country into a joke at the very least…a caricature of its founding principles. How anyone can justify turning freedom of religion on its head to become controlling the behavior of others who don’t follow YOUR religion, or don’t follow it YOUR way, is absolutely beyond me. Oh, right, I forgot, freedom of religion means YOUR freedom of religion. Those other people don’t count. Or maybe they’re just 3/5 of a person? Welcome to the hypocrisy, folks. It’s going to be a long four years. And enjoy a conservative Supreme Court for at least the next 20. And get out that Democratic vote in 2018 if it kills you. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/119 "2016-12-19T16:47:30Z")
While I think this little experiment ends badly for many, many people, I think it ends even worse for Mr. Trump. He’s in WAY over his head. The party, that he is now the leader of, absolutely hates him and would prefer his VP. He has obvious conflicts of interest. Russia likely has dirt on his campaign. He’s at war with his own intelligence community before he even takes office, in favor of a foreign dictatorship. There are so many ways for this to go wrong for him that it’s hard to see how it goes right. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840/120 "2016-12-19T18:24:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I know I’d feel better if Trump’s policy plan wasn’t titled _To Serve America_. Ever notice how, on his victory/thank you tour, he plants a sprig of parsley in each town? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-a-liberal-in-a-trump-world/774840.md?page=7)