# How to be hideous: the right wing tries to discredit the Parkland school shooting survivors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209 "2018-02-20T17:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/101 "2018-02-23T03:47:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Nobody is responsible for your behavior but yourself. And what if I were to advance that argument in favor of gun control, that no one is responsible for mass shootings but the shooters themselves? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/102 "2018-02-23T03:58:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what if I were to advance that argument in favor of gun control, that no one is responsible for mass shootings but the shooters themselves? That’s right. Society needs too work very hard to keep weapons capable of killing quickly and from a distance out of the hands of people who choose to use them for harm. You seem to think we don’t get that the guns don’t shoot themselves. Gun control is about the person. It means ensuring (to the best we can) that the people who have access to guns are trained, capable, not violent, and mentally stable. So we minimize the chance that someone who chooses to do evil will have the chance to do evil. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/103 "2018-02-23T04:13:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what if I were to advance that argument in favor of gun control, that no one is responsible for mass shootings but the shooters themselves? Nobody disagrees with that position. Remember, this point about personal responsibility was made in response to your petulant whine that _“the board itself is responsible for what it gets from me”_. If a school shooter tried to make a similar self-pitying and blame-shifting claim that _“the school itself is responsible for what it got from me”_, you can rest assured that he too would be quickly reminded that nobody’s ultimately responsible for his actions but himself. By gun-rights advocates and gun-control advocates alike. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/104 "2018-02-23T04:19:27Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That’s right. Society needs too work very hard to keep weapons capable of killing quickly and from a distance out of the hands of people who choose to use them for harm. > > You seem to think we don’t get that the guns don’t shoot themselves. Gun control is about the person. It means ensuring (to the best we can) that the people who have access to guns are trained, capable, not violent, and mentally stable. > > So we minimize the chance that someone who chooses to do evil will have the chance to do evil. That’s all well and good, and I’ve said more than once on this board that I’d be in favor of gun control (or even elimination outright) if someone has a workable and effective plan to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. So far I haven’t heard one. single. thing. There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. There is simply no way to keep them out of the hands of the criminal element, and until that problem can be solved I’ll remain staunchly opposed to gun control. Still, the regulations and precautions you list are reasonable and I’d have no problem with them except for the fact that the country’s liberals are the ones who are agitating for them, and experience has shown that there never comes a time when the country’s liberals are satisfied when it comes to what I’ll call for now progress on hot button issues. As soon as the practices and controls you advocate are put into place, the wheels will begin turning to expand up them. And then to expand again. And again, until, ultimately, they get outlawed altogether. If you guys had ever given any evidence whatever that a time comes when you feel progress on an issue has gone far enough and accomplished what it was intended to accomplish and then backed off, I think you’d find a lot less opposition toward some of the things you’d like to do. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/105 "2018-02-23T04:27:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody disagrees with that position. Remember, this point about personal responsibility was made in response to your petulant whine that _“the board itself is responsible for what it gets from me”_. > > If a school shooter tried to make a similar self-pitying and blame-shifting claim that _“the school itself is responsible for what it got from me”_, you can rest assured that he too would be quickly reminded that nobody’s ultimately responsible for his actions but himself. By gun-rights advocates and gun-control advocates alike. Oh, self-pitying, my ass! It’s a simple statement of fact. What goes around comes around, and if you act like an asshole to someone they’re very likely to throw it right back at you if they can, and I can. I have no responsibility whatever to treat you people with respect and take you seriously when you engage in the sort of dishonest, underhanded and otherwise chickenshit behavior so common to disagreement on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/106 "2018-02-23T04:27:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you guys had ever given any evidence whatever that a time comes when you feel progress on an issue has gone far enough and accomplished what it was intended to accomplish and then backed off, I think you’d find a lot less opposition toward some of the things you’d like to do. How does that sweeping complaint about alleged liberal overreach apply to, for instance, legalization of gay marriage? Liberals wanted same-sex marriage to be legal, just like opposite-sex marriage, and it is. AFAIK no liberals are advocating for any further change in marriage laws to privilege same-sex marriage over opposite-sex marriage in any way. Looks like a classic example of liberal activism accomplishing what it was intended to accomplish and then backing off. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/107 "2018-02-23T04:30:50Z")
Here’s what I expect his reply will be **Kimstu** , in effect: “just you wait; you’ll see”. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/108 "2018-02-23T04:31:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s all well and good, and I’ve said more than once on this board that I’d be in favor of gun control (or even elimination outright) if someone has a workable and effective plan to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. So far I haven’t heard one. single. thing. > > There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. There is simply no way to keep them out of the hands of the criminal element, and until that problem can be solved I’ll remain staunchly opposed to gun control. > > Still, the regulations and precautions you list are reasonable and I’d have no problem with them except for the fact that the country’s liberals are the ones who are agitating for them, and experience has shown that there never comes a time when the country’s liberals are satisfied when it comes to what I’ll call for now progress on hot button issues. As soon as the practices and controls you advocate are put into place, the wheels will begin turning to expand up them. And then to expand again. And again, until, ultimately, they get outlawed altogether. If you guys had ever given any evidence whatever that a time comes when you feel progress on an issue has gone far enough and accomplished what it was intended to accomplish and then backed off, I think you’d find a lot less opposition toward some of the things you’d like to do. So you’re opposed to gun control because the lack of gun control resulted in lots of guns being out there so you’re opposed to gun control because the lack of gun control hasnt proven that gun control would work. Wow. Well, then. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/109 "2018-02-23T04:34:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > if you act like an asshole to someone they’re very likely to throw it right back at you if they can And if they do, nobody’s responsible for their behavior but themselves. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > I have no responsibility whatever to treat you people with respect and take you seriously The point at issue is not how you, or anybody else, thinks you **should** behave, but rather who is ultimately responsible for how you **do** behave. And that responsible party is you, no matter how butthurt and sulky you may be about how you imagine other people are behaving towards you. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/110 "2018-02-23T04:39:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Here’s what I expect his reply will be **Kimstu** , in effect: “just you wait; you’ll see”. Wow, you are giving him IMHO **way** too much credit for logical coherence. My money is on his immediately confusing the legal status of same-sex marriage with the legality of discrimination against same-sex couples by private businesses, and complaining that liberals are overreaching by requiring wedding-cake bakers to bake wedding cakes. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/111 "2018-02-23T04:44:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And if they do, nobody’s responsible for their behavior but themselves. > The point at issue is not how you, or anybody else, thinks you **should** behave, but rather who is ultimately responsible for how you **do** behave. > > And that responsible party is you, no matter how butthurt and sulky you may be about how you imagine other people are behaving towards you. Hahaha, so now we’ve arrived at the point where you start interjecting insulting or belittling little interpretations of things I say in a painfully transparent effort to mischaracterize them and hopefully to render them meaningless. Now had you said pissed off, contemptuous and out of patience, then you’d have been on the money. But butthurt and sulky is ridiculous. I wouldn’t have lasted one week around here if I were the type to get butthurt and sulky. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/112 "2018-02-23T04:47:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hahaha, so now we’ve arrived at the point where you start interjecting insulting or belittling little interpretations of things I say in a painfully transparent effort to mischaracterize them and hopefully to render them meaningless. This sentence has no relationship to the post you quoted. But hey, you’re not the only hideous person we can talk about here; there’s plenty of 'em! [Check this one out](https://crooksandliars.com/2018/02/limbaugh-damn-womens-libbers-shot-all?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=idealmedia&utm_campaign=crooksandliars.com&utm_term=68739&utm_content=2193503): > [@](#): > > Conservatives have a lot of scapegoats for the shooting in Parkland, Florida – inadequate mental health screening, video games, an FBI failure, or maybe they just think the whole thing was a hoax staged by crisis actors. > > How can Rush Limbaugh distinguish himself from the pack? > > He showed us how yesterday on his show: he blamed feminism for the shooting. Or, to be precise, a caller (who may or may not have been an actor, if news reports from a few years back are correct) blamed the shooting on feminism, and Limbaugh eagerly agreed. I won’t quote the whole transcript that’s available at the link, but what I did quote is an accurate description of what transpired. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/113 "2018-02-23T04:48:54Z")
And now I’ve got to get out of here. I have a lot of work to do tonight and I’ve spent too much time here already. I just wish I weren’t such a polite and considerate sort, but when people say stuff to me I feel this compulsion to answer back. To do otherwise might seem rude and I certainly wouldn’t want to appear rude. Still, darn my polite and considerate nature anyway! I could get so much more done were I of another sort. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/114 "2018-02-23T05:02:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, the regulations and precautions you list are reasonable and I’d have no problem with them except for the fact that the country’s liberals are the ones who are agitating for them, and experience has shown that there never comes a time when the country’s liberals are satisfied when it comes to what I’ll call for now progress on hot button issues. As soon as the practices and controls you advocate are put into place, the wheels will begin turning to expand up them. And then to expand again. And again, until, ultimately, they get outlawed altogether. If you guys had ever given any evidence whatever that a time comes when you feel progress on an issue has gone far enough and accomplished what it was intended to accomplish and then backed off, I think you’d find a lot less opposition toward some of the things you’d like to do. Here’s a thought. How about you, and the politicians you support, vote in favor of the reasonable regulations and precautions that you now support. In the future, if someone proposes further restrictions that you think are unreasonable, you can all vote against them. You aren’t all planning on going somewhere, are you? Sounds like a plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/115 "2018-02-23T05:05:22Z")
They can’t do that. These conservatives need to vote lockstep behind their leader or lose their Real American card. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/116 "2018-02-23T05:11:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > They can’t do that. These conservatives need to vote lockstep behind their leader or lose their Real American card. “Freedom through conformity” is their motto. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/117 "2018-02-23T05:33:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, self-pitying, my ass! It’s a simple statement of fact. What goes around comes around, and if you act like an asshole to someone they’re very likely to throw it right back at you if they can, and I can. > > I have no responsibility whatever to treat you people with respect and take you seriously when you engage in the sort of dishonest, underhanded and otherwise chickenshit behavior so common to disagreement on this board. The party of personal responsibility, folks. Let’s give 'em a hand. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/118 "2018-02-23T05:50:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, if I won the lottery, I’d use some of the money to go down to Florida, help blacks get concealed weapon permits and hold training sessions for them to understand the Stand Your Ground Law and when they can use it. You’d have Fox News calling for gun control by lunchtime. I saw, and of course re-posted, a meme on Facebook that has a picture of four black men holding assorted firearms, and it’s captioned: “LET’S HAVE A MILLION ARMED BLACK MEN MARCH ON DC - HOW QUICKLY WOULD REPUBLICANS FIND THEIR GUN CONTROL RELIGION THEN?” ETA: Not four, but five. One is standing behind the others. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/119 "2018-02-23T05:53:06Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That’s right. Society needs too work very hard to keep weapons capable of killing quickly and from a distance out of the hands of people who choose to use them for harm. > > You seem to think we don’t get that the guns don’t shoot themselves. Gun control is about the person. It means ensuring (to the best we can) that the people who have access to guns are trained, capable, not violent, and mentally stable. > > So we minimize the chance that someone who chooses to do evil will have the chance to do evil. I pissed off a few people on Facebook (and may do so here too) by saying that the people who think they’re going to have their doors broken down and their guns taken probably shouldn’t be owning them in the first place, AND it’s also not a good idea to brag on social media that they have them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209/120 "2018-02-23T06:02:32Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I pissed off a few people on Facebook (and may do so here too) by saying that the people who think they’re going to have their doors broken down and their guns taken probably shouldn’t be owning them in the first place, AND it’s also not a good idea to brag on social media that they have them in the first place. I’m as old as Starving Artist. Back in my day, advertisements for guns were about hunting and target shooting. People didn’t spend time discussing what kind of ammunition is best for killing people. Someone who advocated stockpiling guns and ammo to fight the government were either deemed crackpots or traitors. I’m with you. If you think you need to carry a gun just to shop at Walmart, or you worry about the black helicopters you are too stupid/crazy to have one [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-hideous-the-right-wing-tries-to-discredit-the-parkland-school-shooting-survivors/809209.md?page=7)