# How to be less ignorant? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972 "2013-02-11T14:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/41 "2013-02-12T01:07:25Z")
Daughter of two lifelong journalists here, I grew up with the concepts of Follow the Money, and Never Assume. I believe that discernment of the quality of sources is key to following the path of diminishing ignorance. I recently got drawn into an inane discussion of the study recently publicized by the NY Times which showed that ordinary house cats killed a vastly larger number of small wild animals and birds than anyone previously estimated. The inane part was that these cat lovers refused to believe the study. They called it “junk science” simply because they didn’t like the conclusion. Trying to get any of them to tell me what was junk about the science quickly fell into one of those “they’re all just in it for the money, science doesn’t prove anything” crevasses. There is no knowledge that is absolutely incontrovertible in all times and places, but there is excellent-quality knowledge (the majority of peer-reviewed published studies) and there is crap-quality (the friend of a facebook friend who reposts a drivelquote misattributed to Bill Cosby). And everything in between. Despite loathing Heinlein, I have always had a fondness for his professional Fair Witness conceit: when an FW is asked to describe the color of a house, she responds, “It’s white on this side.” Strive to be that. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/42 "2013-02-12T15:51:31Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think your problem, specifically (and don’t take this as a slam) is twofold: you push too much (and dig yourself deeper), and you don’t know when to defer to authority. > > For the first, you can just let a topic drop. You’d get attacked a lot less if after being proven wrong you would just stop defending yourself. Don’t post a 3-page post explaining why your smart phone made you wrong, or how your history book mislead you. Just say “okay, fair enough” and move on. Insistence of defending yourself **on matters that aren’t worth it** (obviously don’t compromise your morals, or when you’re a legitimate expert) makes you look ignorant. > > The second is related, it takes a long time to realize who the expert is on what, and I don’t know everybody here, but I wouldn’t give any major mathematical quibbles against Indistinguishable – or attempt to argue physics with Chronos. Remember that a few months of actual experience, even with months of internet research, is not a substitute for the real thing. That’s why you got slammed when you were arguing with a Career Taekwondo instructor about Taekwondo. You may very well have been right, I have no idea, but unless you have some **damn** good and reputable cites (and for something as fluffy as “what a dojang should do” I doubt there’s anything that authoritative) you really need to defer to authority. > > You seem to like Socrates, and I believe you know that Socrates is the wisest man because he knows that he knows nothing, correct? It’s true – the more you know about a field, the more doubt you feel. It’s natural. Even though I probably know a whole lot more about Computer Science than most people in the world (since most people have never touched the subject), this also means I know how many fields there are in Computer Science, and how deep those fields are. I also know when I’m not an expert. I’m not about to argue the most basic of Compiler Theory, and even though I’ve TA’d the subject, I’m barely more than a novice on the subject of AI (except perhaps Transfer Learning). > > You have to accept that at your level of education, you simply cannot give an authoritative answer on most anything. Maybe violin (I think it was violin) playing, if you’re really that good. It also means that you have to recognize when you’re outclassed and not argue with people who outclass you on the subject. > > **Being** less ignorant is just a matter of listening, reading, learning, and participating. **Seeming** less ignorant is primarily a matter of knowing when you’re beat. Thanks for all your advice, **Jragon**. I was just wondering, you saw me get beat up (metaphorically) trying to argue TaeKwonDo with **Clothahump**? Because I didn’t see you posting. Were you just secretly watching? :dubious:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/43 "2013-02-12T16:04:55Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Thanks for all your advice, **Jragon**. I was just wondering, you saw me get beat up (metaphorically) trying to argue TaeKwonDo with **Clothahump**? Because I didn’t see you posting. Were you just secretly watching? :dubious:😃 Dude, it’s not “secretly watching”. It’s reading threads, like many people have suggested that you do. Reading can overcome ignorance; typing can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/44 "2013-02-12T16:11:18Z")
I wanted to say something about the experience bit. I know when you’re young and people say “experience” you’re kind of like “bullshit”. But it really makes a difference. I never believed it until I started internalizing it myself. You realize, most of all, what matters and what doesn’t matter, and you realize how fleeting life really is. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/45 "2013-02-12T16:22:36Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Reading can overcome ignorance; typing can’t. Can I steal that? ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/46 "2013-02-12T16:24:22Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > While ignorance is an evil thing and this Message Board’s main purpose is to fight it, the problem is that according to a lot of people here, I have a lot of it. > > If you know **Anonymous User** even the slightest bit, you are probably aware of my ignorance in almost any thread I post in. > > How do I _not_ be so ignorant? > > I really don’t want to be ignorant. I am a Socrates fanboy and as he said, “There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” To start, ignorance isn’t evil. It’s natural and we’re all ignorant of many more things than we know. _Willful ignorance_ draws a greater distinction and is a bigger problem. Anyway, [ul] [li]Listen more than you speak and fact-check what you _think_ you know (_emphasis on that last part, because it’s too often that people repeat what they’ve heard, because it sounded agreeable at the time_).[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Be slow to judge and empathetic. Logic isn’t always intuitive or the best approach, but balance is usually the key.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Humbly ask questions and review the responses to those questions, preferably with a reputable source. Don’t speak as an authority on something you don’t know.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Listen to ideas and opinions which contrast yours. Though you may not like or agree with them, this is important. Too many people get defensive and/or resistant, which clouds the learning experience. Not every difference of ideas and/or opinions should be polarized as right or wrong.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]A fair portion of communication is often misinterpreted. Seek to properly understand and try to communicate as effectively as possible.[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]Reflection…try to reflect, as it’s vital to the process.[/li][/ul] I’m sure there are others. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/47 "2013-02-12T16:24:23Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Remember that a few months of actual experience,\*\* even with months of internet research\*\*, is not a substitute for the real thing. God, that’s the truth. A little learning is a dangerous thing and all that. I used to scoff retroactively at teachers that warned against online sources. I would think “P’shaw. You’re thinking about the early 90’s. It’s a whole new world out there now. I couldn’t find a geocities site even if I wanted to.” Then I realized that a lot of people who couldn’t tell the difference between a good cite and a bad site. More disturbingly, people were hinging entire world views off those sites. Facebook has illuminated this to a horrifying degree. Just off newsfeed from the last couple of hours: 1 - Margarine is 95% plastic. Eating margarine will turn you plastic. 2 - Shaming Rihanna does nothing for the young women of our society. 3 - DC is the infidelity capital of the world. 4 - Fluoride in our drinking water is lowering IQ. 5 - Obama is removing all military leaders from command if they will not fire upon US citizens. Not to mention all the other nutjobs out there like Jenny McCarthy claiming that vaccines cause autism. Oh, and I just visited [Bullshido.net](http://Bullshido.net). I wasn’t expecting much but that was severely underwhelming. I’m surprised that Clothahump gave it the acknowledgement that he did. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/48 "2013-02-12T16:42:07Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Can I steal that? Let’s consider it public domain. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972/49 "2013-02-12T16:59:20Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Thanks for all your advice, **Jragon**. I was just wondering, you saw me get beat up (metaphorically) trying to argue TaeKwonDo with **Clothahump**? Because I didn’t see you posting. Were you just secretly watching? :dubious:😃 _Anonymous User: \*\* I have not read any of your posts other than this thread, but I think this might help: many years ago when I first visited online discussions, I started out believing that everyone expected me respond to every conversation or comment. I thought I would offend people by not_ replying, so I conscientiously posted all over the place. Finally someone told me that what I was doing was rude, that I should quiet down and observe (read) and get to know the community – then only post when I had something to contribute. I felt so ashamed when I learned this, but I’m still really thankful that someone understood what I was doing and set me straight. I admire you for starting this particular thread in order to better understand your role in this community. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-be-less-ignorant/649972.md?page=2)