# How to co-exist with coyote pack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558 "2017-12-04T18:21:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Socalk9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@Socalk9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socalk9)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/1 "2017-12-04T18:21:54Z")
I live in Southern Ca on a private, extremely manicured golf course that backs up to a protected wilderness reserve. (Sorry 4 the novel but the details are important) The “food” chain here is plentiful. We have rabbit, duck, fruit trees, fish, etc plus various domestic pets for the coyotes. Basically- when they don’t want to hunt, they just “pick up groceries on aisle 9” aka someone’s back patio. They stroll the golf course at all hours. From early dusk through out the night and til - sometimes mid day. They are NOT afraid. I realize they were here first. I simply want to ensure my dogs safety. I have lost one dog already. They jumped my fence - and got her. Now my new dog wants to make friends with the coyotes!!! (My Bichon is cute - not smart) I feel it is a matter of time b4 tragedy happens. Any ideas or suggestions are welcome. I won’t use poison and guns are out. I ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/2 "2017-12-04T18:36:26Z")
Given that you are next to a protected area, the only real hope is to keep your pets indoors. There are steps you can take to make the coyotes hunt elsewhere, but unless **all** your neighbors help out, it’s mostly a waste of time, and one of those things is keep pets indoors (or at least not unattended when outdoors). > **[Living with California Coyotes - Native Animal Rescue](https://www.nativeanimalrescue.org/coyote-lore-living-with-california-coyotes/)** > > The coyote is a member of the dog family and is native to California. They are one of the three different types of wild canids (dogs) found in North America. The coyote resembles a small German shepherd dog with the exception of the long snout and... ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/3 "2017-12-04T18:36:32Z")
You, and your neighbors, have to harass the coyotes whenever you see them. Toss rocks, yell, etc. Not that this will hurt the coyotes, but you’re trying to keep them afraid of people and civilization. Other than keeping your pets inside, or having a service trap and relocate them, I’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/4 "2017-12-04T18:40:37Z")
> [@Socalk9](#): > > I live in Southern Ca on a private, extremely manicured golf course that backs up to a protected wilderness reserve. (Sorry 4 the novel but the details are important) > The “food” chain here is plentiful. We have rabbit, duck, fruit trees, fish, etc plus various domestic pets for the coyotes. > Basically- when they don’t want to hunt, they just “pick up groceries on aisle 9” aka someone’s back patio. > They stroll the golf course at all hours. From early dusk through out the night and til - sometimes mid day. They are NOT afraid. > I realize they were here first. I simply want to ensure my dogs safety. I have lost one dog already. They jumped my fence - and got her. > Now my new dog wants to make friends with the coyotes!!! (My Bichon is cute - not smart) > I feel it is a matter of time b4 tragedy happens. > Any ideas or suggestions are welcome. > I won’t use poison and guns are out. > > I Hmm. If you dont keep dog food on your back porch and get a btter fence, they will stay out. We do keep cat food on ours, and there are coyotes, but they dont get into our backyard. yet. Let your dog out only under supervision. Likely day time is safe with moderation watchfulness. > **[Coyote Prevention and Repellent Review](http://www.wildlife-removal.com/coyoteprevention.html)** > > Coyote Prevention and Repellent Review \*Odor Deterrents Smell has been used for a long time to keep coyotes away and their numbers from increasing. Most commonly used is wolf urine, moth balls and rags soaked in ammonia. \* You can actually buy wolf piss online. Ain’t the internet great? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/5 "2017-12-04T18:59:06Z")
Even being outside with yours is not necessarily a deterrent. There are lots of stories of pets being snatched while with their owners. Stay right with your dog and never, ever leave her outside alone. If you are permitted, consider better fencing. You don’t need to have fencing that ruins your view in order to have something that is more likely to keep coyotes out of your yard. We had metal mesh that was buried and then run between 4x4’s and up 8 feet to a 4x2 cross rail. You could see through it, but it was hard for critters to get in, and my dogs, goats, and the occasional horse to get out. Bring this up at your HOA meeting. If you live on a golf course, I’m assuming that you have one. If you don’t, try to organize a neighborhood meeting. It sounds like something the entire neighborhood should tackle. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/6 "2017-12-04T19:08:05Z")
Introduce wolves to the wildlife reserve. They’ll control the coyote population. Contact the [California Wolf Center](https://www.californiawolfcenter.org/) and see if they can introduce some in your area. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/7 "2017-12-04T19:17:34Z")
I know you said guns are out, but would you consider an air rifle/pellet gun? They are quiet, accurate, legal to use in many places where firearms are not, and animals do not like to be struck by the pellets. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/8 "2017-12-04T19:24:35Z")
I used to live on the edge of a protected Civil War battlefield, which was rife with equally protected coyotes. The realities here are harsh, don’t shoot the messenger. - If “guns are out”, as you say, then “supervising” your dog only guarantees that you’ll know what happened to him. - In order to put up a fence good enough to keep them out, you will probably have to get a waiver from your HOA. You’ll need a barbed-wire bend out, or electrification, which _might_ stop them. - An outdoor run, with fencing on top and bottom as well as sides, is the only safe way to give your pet outdoor time. - Sites that recommend a six-foot fence are just trying to sell six-foot fencing. They don’t know coyotes. [See Wiley jump!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3at0R8QZWE) - Never use those pull-out leashes. Keeping your dog near you and under complete control signals to the pack that he has a pack too. It won’t guarantee safety, but it makes you a less juicy target. - If you are going to fight for your pet, you’ll need a weapon. Any stick you raise to hit them, they will dodge. They will move faster than your eyes can track, and from several angles at once. I recommend a [cattle prod.](https://smile.amazon.com/Magrath-Livestock-Yellow-HotShot-22/dp/B005R3V770/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_g2609328962?_encoding=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&%2Aentries%2A=0&ie=UTF8) Jab with it, like a rapier. - Check out the Humane Society’s[recommendations on developing a coexistence plan.](http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/wildlife/template-coyote-management-plan.pdf) Talk to the HOA about installing as many of these ideas as possible. - [How to haze a coyote.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlC8KTDiIRs) Again, talk to the HOA about installing as many of these ideas as possible. - Finally,don’t waste money on regular motion detector lights. You need ones that are meant to startle, that blink, change color, and even make noises. Further, they have to change up; if a coyote can learn to predict what it will do, they’ll become comfortable with it. Hope that helps. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/9 "2017-12-04T19:26:37Z")
Having a bichon in coyote territory (which is most everywhere) is pretty much providing snacks. I’d suggest a completely fenced/covered dog run. It is not like a bichon requires room to roam. Curious why, after losing 1 small dog to coyotes, you chose to get another. And yes, I would ensure that the coyotes knew that whenever they got within throwing distance of your property, a rock would be headed their way. Maybe a slingshot… Oops - ninjaed… ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/10 "2017-12-04T19:36:20Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > … > > Curious why, after losing 1 small dog to coyotes, you chose to get another. > > … Dog lovers love dogs. They become family rather quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/11 "2017-12-04T20:51:43Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Dog lovers love dogs. They become family rather quickly. I love dogs myself. I guess I’d either get a larger dog, or figure out a solution before getting a second small dog. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/12 "2017-12-04T20:55:35Z")
So why is poison so bad? ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/13 "2017-12-04T20:57:57Z")
Or get a cat and keep it indoors. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/14 "2017-12-04T21:08:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So why is poison so bad? It poisons dogs, cats, racoons, raptors, etc, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/15 "2017-12-04T21:15:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So why is poison so bad? Poison kills whatever eats it, which would probably include lots of non-coyotes. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/16 "2017-12-04T21:26:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Poison kills whatever eats it, which would probably include lots of non-coyotes. And whatever eats the dead animal and whatever eats the dead eater, etc. It’s the cycle of death. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/17 "2017-12-04T23:06:11Z")
Hunting slingshot, with Lug Nuts for ammo. Won’t kill them, but pain is an educator. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/18 "2017-12-05T00:05:46Z")
Maybe you can huck stray golf balls at them. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/19 "2017-12-05T00:11:53Z")
[Coyote rollers.](https://coyoteroller.com/pages/what-is-a-coyote-roller) But better to make the bichon an indoor dog. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558/20 "2017-12-05T00:22:15Z")
We have a lot of coyotes in our neighborhood. Our policy is to never leave our dogs out after sunset without humans around. Even during the day, we make sure that they are not outside for very long unsupervised. I plan on building a fully fenced dog run so the dogs can go out to “do their business” without adult supervision. As an aside: I was out in our pasture with our three dogs - an elderly Lab, a young, blind Chocolate Lab, and our Bichon/Poodle mix. The Little Dog suddenly started making his “I’ve found a cat” bark, and the next thing I knew, he chased a large coyote out from under some bushes to the fence, where the coyote made his escape. I suspect that the combination of two big dogs and me was just too unfavorable to the coyote attacking the Little Dog. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-co-exist-with-coyote-pack/803558.md?page=2)