# How to create a fascist military state in a “democracy” without anyone catching on. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389 "2005-10-01T23:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/41 "2005-10-03T18:54:56Z")
Just wait until you’re 23. Your opinion will change. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/42 "2005-10-03T19:14:58Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > Maybe it would be beneficial to avoid the term fascism in your argument? Because most people associate it with Nazis and their particular symbols. As if fascism could only occur in the US if swaztikas were flown, and a leader with a funny mustache and a German accent was in power. Hey, it’s still possible we’ll get the amendment passed to allow Arnold to run for President. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/43 "2005-10-03T19:33:51Z")
Funny mustache = no mustache? ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/44 "2005-10-03T20:43:35Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Yeah. We call it “Wyoming”. Why do you think Cheney is always thought to be there? 😉 Now that I’m reading Heinlein’s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (which I accidentally stumbled upon, but since found out is a popular choice on this board - I wonder what Heinlein would have thought about me reading it on my PSP :D), the word Wyoming has gotten a whole new meaning to me. 🙂 (and a number of famous nicks on the boards here also … :D) Also, that book gives a good example, I think, of how the OP could happen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/45 "2005-10-03T21:00:42Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > This happened when and where? Please don’t say 2000 otherwise it’ll be hard to take you seriously. You saying the 2000 election wasn’t stolen? I have some threads I can link you to that will introduce you to many, many people you won’t want to take seriously. But you’ll have a hard time dealing with their arguments. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/46 "2005-10-03T21:02:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Indeed, I’m always surprised at how Bush’s oppressive fascist regime rarely prevents me from doing things. > > I’d love to find out from our OP what things she wants to do that Bush is preventing her from doing. Drugs don’t count, they’ve been illegal way longer than Bush has been president, and most people who want to do drugs do them anyway. He’s working on preventing adults from viewing straight-up consensual porn at the moment. Might not be something YOU want to do, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/47 "2005-10-03T21:07:16Z")
I’m not sure [this device](http://www.stopabductions.com/) would block a fascist military takeover, but it’s sure worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/48 "2005-10-03T22:07:05Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > We’ve had drug laws on the books for over a century now. Although I disagree with them I don’t think they’re going to lead us down the road to facism. Ha! Why do you think they called Calvin Coolidge ‘Silent Cal’? He’s working behind the scenes and in a few decades, bam!, he’s President for Life. Then he’ll instil facism because it was hip in the '30s. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/49 "2005-10-03T22:18:02Z")
> [@Lynne\_kilii](#): > > Hey! I’m twenty! And vaugely insulted. Thankfully I’m not clueless, but I’d put the clueless age around 17. 1. I don’t think the statement implied every 20 year old was clueless, just that the OP’s statements were that of a 20 year old who also happened to be clueless. 2. I’ve never met a clueless person who admitted to it, and I’ve met many. I’m sure that somewhere along the way, someone said the same about me, and I never thought myself clueless, either. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/50 "2005-10-03T22:19:01Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > You saying the 2000 election wasn’t stolen? I have some threads I can link you to that will introduce you to many, many people you won’t want to take seriously. But you’ll have a hard time dealing with their arguments. Seriously. Yep, I don’t think it was stolen. Marc ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/51 "2005-10-03T22:27:29Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > As you note, a scapegoat (or a few scapegoats) are a necessary component. Rigged elections are always helpful, if need be (i.e., the means should be in place, even if it is not always utilized). The military should be exalted, and used to fight a war that demands blind patriotism. The need for propaganda goes without saying. These are hardly components solely for facism. They could be used to install a monarchy, plutocracy or communist theology(errrr, well…). Heck, even a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/52 "2005-10-04T02:12:25Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > He’s working on preventing adults from viewing straight-up consensual porn at the moment. Might not be something YOU want to do, but there it is. Oooooh, that’s a good one. Bush will get my porn when he pries it\* from my cold, dead, fingers. [sub]\*It is up to the reader to determine what “it” is.[/sub] Actually, the morality and copyright stuff he’s doing affects far more people personally than any of the terrorist stuff he’s doing. You can name the US citizens questionably incarcerated, because there are so few of them. Try to name the people affected by bad porn laws, FCC rulings, and copyright laws and you’ll be talking for the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/53 "2005-10-04T03:16:20Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > You saying the 2000 election wasn’t stolen? Allow me to suggest that we not do this again. That horse has been beaten to death, buried, dug up, resurrected as a zombie, beaten into submission, and blasted out of existance with a holy symbol. It’s gone, man. Let it be. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/54 "2005-10-04T11:40:10Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Bush will get my porn when he pries it\* from my cold, dead, fingers. > > [sub]\*It is up to the reader to determine what “it” is.[/sub] Don’t you mean “warm, sticky fingers”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/55 "2005-10-04T19:07:39Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > These are hardly components solely for facism. They could be used to install a monarchy, plutocracy or communist theology(errrr, well…). Heck, even a democracy. Yes, I agree. That’s why I said that fascism is more about tactics than an end goal to a particular ideology. What components can be identified as “solely fascist”? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/56 "2005-10-04T19:31:05Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > Yes, I agree. That’s why I said that fascism is more about tactics than an end goal to a particular ideology. What components can be identified as “solely fascist”? I was just piggybacking your comment. 🙂 Facism is the ends not the means. ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/57 "2005-10-04T20:36:11Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I was just piggybacking your comment. 🙂 Facism is the ends not the means. I’ll assume you meant to say “the means not the ends” and maintain our agreement. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/58 "2005-10-04T23:08:05Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > I’ll assume you meant to say “the means not the ends” and maintain our agreement. 🙂 Well, I mean that fascism is a form of government, not the way it is reached. Jack booted thugs aren’t fascist in themselves, nor is antisemitism or crack downs on personal freedoms. They can lead to a fascism, plutocracy, or what have you, they aren’t solely the domain of fascism. I suppose you could have a peaceful fascism… ---
**Author:** ![zeeny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zeeny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeeny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/59 "2005-10-04T23:29:16Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well, I mean that fascism is a form of government, not the way it is reached. Jack booted thugs aren’t fascist in themselves, nor is antisemitism or crack downs on personal freedoms. They can lead to a fascism, plutocracy, or what have you, they aren’t solely the domain of fascism. I suppose you could have a peaceful fascism… Really? I’m curious then - if you see it as _solely a form of government_, what do you see as the _defining_ characteristics of such a government? And would it be possible to see it coming? How do you envision a peaceful fascism? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389/60 "2005-10-05T03:34:29Z")
> [@zeeny](#): > > Really? I’m curious then - if you see it as _solely a form of government_, what do you see as the _defining_ characteristics of such a government? Something such as an authoritarian hierarchical government with strict socioeconomic control. Heavy censorship and a large police presence would also be likely. How do you see fascism? > [@](#): > > And would it be possible to see it coming? Possibly, possibly not. It depends on the situation. > [@](#): > > How do you envision a peaceful fascism? The same way I envision a successful communism-hypothetically. The people decide they want a strong, rigid central government with a strong dictator leading it and favor censorship and police omnipresence to keep them feeling safe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-create-a-fascist-military-state-in-a-democracy-without-anyone-catching-on/324389.md?page=4)