# How to deal with an evangelical atheist boss? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723 "2009-10-22T10:20:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/21 "2009-10-23T02:23:48Z")
Get even! Dump sets of religious tracts (especially those ubiquitous Chick tracts which will especially annoy him) even if you don’t believe it just to piss him off. That’ll get him to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/22 "2009-10-23T03:08:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And we’d have posts calling atheists intolerant bigots, and pretending that religion is something that deserves to be considered seriously, and so on. And we’d probably have posts like yours, talking about the SDMB’s “bias” against those poor, persecuted believers. Look, I’m as skeptical as they come, but people deserve to not be harassed in the workplace about their shit. Work is not the SDMB. I don’t care if it’s religious shit, sexual orientation shit, what shit you like to do in your spare time, or what the hell ever else. Unless you’re making your shit everyone else’s problem, people need to leave you the hell alone about it. I work with a Fox News-watching, Rush Limbaugh-listening, flag-waving, super-conservative religious type. Philosophically we are pretty much exact opposites in every way. But you know what? I treat her with respect, and she treats me with respect, and we get along just great. There’s one jackass in our office who makes me crazy because he just won’t leave her alone. I agree with the guy’s stances on the issues, but I hate the way he has to be nasty and smug about it. He’s done the same to others, and takes advantage of his position of being friends with the owners to do it. I don’t care if you find out that your co-workers thinks that they’re a Jedi Knight or the second coming of La Petomaine brought back to bring a message to Earth; if they didn’t bring it up and don’t want to discuss it, there’s simply no reason to bother people who are minding their own business. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/23 "2009-10-23T03:16:48Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Look, I’m as skeptical as they come, but people deserve to not be harassed in the workplace about their shit. Work is not the SDMB. I don’t care if it’s religious shit, sexual orientation shit, what shit you like to do in your spare time, or what the hell ever else. Unless you’re making your shit everyone else’s problem, people need to leave you the hell alone about it. Oh, I agree. I was commenting on **raindog** ’s comments about what would happen here on the SDMB. As for proselytizing anything at work, I think it’s unethical to push your hobbyhorses on people who are essentially a captive audience. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/24 "2009-10-23T03:50:48Z")
Your boss is an idiot and a bit rude. Invite her to join the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/25 "2009-10-23T07:05:16Z")
Haranguing an employee about religious beliefs is completely out of bounds. You have already asked her once to keep religion out of the workplace. She kept right on doing it.You would be within your rights to go to HR to complain about it. Any competent HR manager will put a stop to this. The only question is whether your care about your boss’ reaction - it’s possible she will hold a grudge. On the other hand, it’s also possible you will gain her respect by standing up for yourself. BTW, your boss probably damaged her own reputation when she ridiculed you in front of your co-worker. I wouldn’t have any respect for a manager whom I saw treating an employee that way, and I’m an atheist myself. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/26 "2009-10-23T07:22:43Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > the second coming of La Petomaine brought back to bring a message to Earth That’s a Sermon on the Mount I’d pay to hear. Levity aside, your boss is not proselytizing or being an evangelical atheist… your boss is being a smug jackass. Frankly, since she _claims_ to have understood your feelings on how she’s treating you and your beliefs but is ignoring it, I think you’re perfectly within your rights to take her the hell off your friends’ list and not be overly polite in shutting down any religion-centered conversations she initiates. (Note I said “not overly polite”, not “impolite”. There are quite effective ways of implying “Shut yer festering gob, yer ratbag” without actually saying as much.) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/27 "2009-10-23T08:09:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Bringing up religion at work just seems so alien to me. I can’t even imagine it happening. Me neither, but I know that New Englanders are really unusually closed lipped about religion or lack thereof. I wonder if it has to do with what sorts of religion are common where a person works and lives. There could be a thread in this. I wish I could offer the OP some advice, but my tactic when being similarly harrassed about politics right after college, didn’t work. Not saying anything and refusing to engage doesn’t stop people from monologuing to a captive audience.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/28 "2009-10-23T09:25:13Z")
About the Facebook thing, most of us (team of 12) are on each others’ Facebooks and Twitters (for those who have them – I don’t). It would seem a little weird to defriend everyone now, wouldn’t it? We do a fair amount of socialising outside the office – as posters have noted, the boundaries between Work and Casual are not very clearly set in our workplace. It works fine except when it doesn’t! > [@dangermom](#): > > Not only that, she belongs to a tradition that specifically does not proselyte and has come under tremendous pressure from other religions for centuries. Little bit of a pile-on, don’t you think? Seriously, it really irritates me when people lump in Jews with the sort of religions that evangelize. **Jews have never proselytized or sought converts**. In fact, the Talmud has some pretty nasty things to say about people who do want to enter the religion (I don’t agree with them, I should note). We have never pestered anyone about their religious beliefs, and in fact gently discourage people from converting unless they’ve proved they’re really serious about it. And now, even after the Inquisition (which was totally unexpected), pogroms, and a little thing people like to call the Shoah or Holocaust, non-religious atheists are coming in with “Ha ha, believers, how does it feel now that the shoe’s on the other foot?” Um, it’s been there for at least a thousand years, thanks? People trying to get Jews to stop being Jewish is nothing new, but it is, at this point, really tedious. > [@ivylass](#): > > If she brings it up again, then quietly say, “I thought we talked about this already.” If she continues, start documenting. I like that response. I think she understands that hostile work environments are bad, but doesn’t think of “hassling religious person about their (to her, clearly ridiculous) beliefs/practice” as creating one. If I make it clear that I see it that way, I think she will knock it off. The thing is, I wouldn’t mind chatting about traditions and practice with someone like my non-religious atheist desk partner, or my Anglo-Catholic coworker, who is the one who asked about the bacon sarnie, because I know none of us would be rude or disrespectful. But I realise that I will have to completely shut off all participation in religious discussion in the workplace to get my boss to stop. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Your boss is an idiot and a bit rude. Invite her to join the SDMB. This is clearly the best option, however. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/29 "2009-10-23T10:25:28Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > One of my few friends at work is ULTRA-orthodox Jewish. Of course he wouldn’t call himself that. Instead, he considers himself simply a Jew (and would not consider you to be one.) That kind of a believer. But I love that we can openly discuss any aspect of his belief or my disbelief. From out discussions I have learned more about Jewish history, practices, etc than I could have from any amount of reading. Still think his beliefs are batshit insane, tho. But do you tell him “your beliefs are batshit insane and by the way I do not believe you when you tell me what they are”? Or do you believe that he believes Reform Jews aren’t real Jews? SecondJudith’s boss would not let your coworwer finish and would claim that what he says he believes is not what he believes. I wouldn’t want to work for someone who calls me a liar; for some reason there’s people who think it’s fine to call you a liar so long as you’re talking about your own life - well, it’s not. If **SecondJudith** ’s boss was genuinely interested in her beliefs, that would be great. But she’s not, she’s just using that particular detail about her to attack her. What she’s doing has nothing to do with religious ideology, it’s more akin to someone going “but you can’t be colorblind but only for some colors! There’s no such thing! Anybody who claims to be colorblind but only in the red/green spectrum is a liar!” I’ve had people refusing to believe me - when I told them that Spaniards do not need a Visa to visit Argentina - this one refused to look at the screen when I tried to show her an email from the Argentinian embassy stating that I did not need a Visa… she also refused to take a printout of the same email - when I mentioned that while I (female) was in High School at the Jesuits, my brothers were in Primary School at the nuns; or that both schools were coed; or that most of those nuns did not wear habits Just off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/30 "2009-10-23T17:09:56Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Me neither, but I know that New Englanders are really unusually closed lipped about religion or lack thereof. I wonder if it has to do with what sorts of religion are common where a person works and lives. There could be a thread in this. I wish they’d be more tight=lipped about other controversialness…aside from this morning…in between the conservative talk shows played just loud enough for me to hear, I innocently mosey over to the communal three-hole punch and can’t help but notice two co-workers watching a video report of an amazingly disturbing topic newborn being raped and beaten And two of them are crime buffs who describe this stuff in detail. Really? In the workplace? Grrr. I know, I need to find a way to say something. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/31 "2009-10-23T17:46:00Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Seriously, it really irritates me when people lump in Jews with the sort of religions that evangelize. \ People trying to get Jews to stop being Jewish is nothing new, but it is, at this point, really tedious. Perhaps as tedious as the readiness with which certain middle class western Jews (not necessarily the OP) to bring up the Holocaust and attribute any number of things to antisemitism? Jews certainly can be lumped in with just about every other sort of religion - whether evangelical or not - to the extent they believe in a whole bunch of stuff that impresses nonbelievers as really stupid shit. In fact, when you start talking about what you can and cannot eat, where you can and cannot go and do from sundown to sundown, and any number of other wacky habits, Jews would give most other religions a healthy run for the money in terms of goofiness. There are A LOT of aspects of Jewish philosophy that I find extremely appealing. But the mythical beliefs and practices . . . > [@](#): > > But do you tell him “your beliefs are batshit insane and by the way I do not believe you when you tell me what they are”? Or do you believe that he believes Reform Jews aren’t real Jews? I have told him that his beliefs make for a mighty high maintenance lifestyle. But no, I wouldn’t tell anyone I do not intensely dislike that I considered them or their beliefs batshit insane. And I am certain that he does not consider less orthodox jews fully “jewish.” But instead of admitting as much, I am confident that he would sort of smugly demur from making such a judgment in a manner that leaves no question how he feels. I’d like to point out my initial observations that I sympathize with the OP, that she shouldn’t have to put up with that in her workplace, and that her boss sounds like an idiot. Living in a heavily christian community, I have often felt myself very close to the few Jews in the community to the extent the majority did not respect our beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/32 "2009-10-23T18:12:05Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Me neither, but I know that New Englanders are really unusually closed lipped about religion or lack thereof. I wonder if it has to do with what sorts of religion are common where a person works and lives. There could be a thread in this. Really? I guess I’ve been immersed in the culture here so long that I don’t really have much to compare it to. But as much as I like going to Florida every year, yeah, people there are much more open about their religious views, and they’re often views very contrary to my own. Around here, there are people of every religious stripe, but evangelicals are really uncommon. The big religions here are Catholic and Jewish. Hey, maybe they just feel guilty about prosletizing! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/33 "2009-10-23T19:21:46Z")
> [@](#): > > How to deal with an evangelical atheist boss? Know the Word of God and how to use the Word. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/34 "2009-10-23T20:11:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Really? I guess I’ve been immersed in the culture here so long that I don’t really have much to compare it to. Grew up in Maine and didn’t notice/appreciate this either until I moved to the west coast, where people feel the need to (for lack of a better word) “register” their church attendance by dropping mention of it in the workplace. That’s one thing I miss - you could know someone for years and not know their religious persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/35 "2009-10-23T21:43:59Z")
I reccomend hypersensitivity. Ask your boss if he has some sort of problem with Jews. Ask him if he knows who \*else \*had a problem with Jews. The best way to deal with people like him is to put them on the defensive. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/36 "2009-10-24T00:24:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Perhaps as tedious as the readiness with which certain middle class western Jews (not necessarily the OP) to bring up the Holocaust and attribute any number of things to antisemitism? > > Jews certainly can be lumped in with just about every other sort of religion - whether evangelical or not - to the extent they believe in a whole bunch of stuff that impresses nonbelievers as really stupid shit. In fact, when you start talking about what you can and cannot eat, where you can and cannot go and do from sundown to sundown, and any number of other wacky habits, Jews would give most other religions a healthy run for the money in terms of goofiness. > > There are A LOT of aspects of Jewish philosophy that I find extremely appealing. But the mythical beliefs and practices . . . In the case of the OP, she’s (? I’m going by the “Judith” part of her username) Reform. I think that may cut out a lot of the can/cannot eat etc. stuff. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/37 "2009-10-24T02:11:32Z")
IMO, the workplace is not a place for religious discussion of any type. If you all socialize outside the workplace, have your religious studies out in the bar. I don’t think the discussions, whether they’re about your personal beliefs or speculations about others’, are appropriate at work AT ALL. Shouldn’t you all be working, anyway? OP, you could take it to HR as a group issue, so if HR needs to tell you all as a group to knock off the religious studies, it’s not personal toward anyone and could be passed off as something that wasn’t complained about directly by you. Perhaps HR got wind of it from another department or something. When you’re at work, you can remind people to stay off the subject. Then, when you’re not at work, and your boss decides to tear into your personal beliefs, you can remind her as strongly as you wish how you already discussed her dissing you personally. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/38 "2009-10-24T09:42:11Z")
I don’t get why everyone is making the distinction about this having to do with work. I live in the Bible belt, and we don’t discuss religion except at explicitly religious places. Sure, some people will mention going to church, but nobody talks about what they believe. And, more importantly, nobody ever makes fun of someone because of what they believe. It’s just a huge social faux pas. We may mostly be Christian, but you don’t discuss what we disagree on. It didn’t use to be, though. Just one generation back and atheists can’t be friends with Christians. So it always seemed to me that this level of politeness came with the political correctness that is all over the place with my generation and below. So I’m surprised when in other places, which have had the whole PC progressive thing longer, this sort of thing seems normal to some people. Unless this woman thinks she is just teasing you, I don’t understand her actions, whether in a workplace setting or not. Not even the worst radical atheist on this board is that bad. > [@sjc](#): > > In the case of the OP, she’s (? I’m going by the “Judith” part of her username) Reform. I think that may cut out a lot of the can/cannot eat etc. stuff. You mean this little exchange didn’t help? 😛 > [@](#): > > CO-WORKER: Oh, how come you get to eat bacon? > ME: Well, the Reform movement doesn’t– > MY BOSS: [interrupting] Judith is only Jewish when it suits her. She belongs to this fakey movement that lets you eat bacon and things. > ME: [to co-worker] Reform’s a bit more laid-back about halacha and dietary laws. > MY BOSS: See? That’s why all religion is pretty much rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/39 "2009-10-24T10:52:45Z")
Pardon me, but this cannot go unnoticed: “Believe in G-d is not a big part of Judiasm?” (quote from OP) Please take some constrcutive criticism: The short reply is please do some soul searching…even if this was just a dodge to avoid someone questioning your heritage. If no dodge, I think you either better go back to Hebrew school and re-learn the story of Abraham (for one), or join your boss. I don’t understand what Yom Kippur means to you without unwavering believe in G-d. Perhaps to you, it simply means being present on this Holy Day to assuage some sense of guilt and nothing more. Beyond every prayer praising, thanking, and acknowledging G-d as the One Eternal, Jews have 13 principles of faith. Me thinks this is a biggie on that list! Yes, even the Reform understand that’s what it’s all about. Otherwise, you might as well be doing the hokey-pokey in the sanctuary every Saturday and holiday. If that was just a dodge, I think you could have dodged your boss’ interrogation without caving. You’re haphazardly dismissing everything to which Jews cling as trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723/40 "2009-10-24T13:08:03Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > Pardon me, but this cannot go unnoticed: “Believe in G-d is not a big part of Judiasm?” (quote from OP) Please take some constrcutive criticism: The short reply is please do some soul searching…even if this was just a dodge to avoid someone questioning your heritage. > > If no dodge, I think you either better go back to Hebrew school and re-learn the story of Abraham (for one), or join your boss. I don’t understand what Yom Kippur means to you without unwavering believe in G-d. Perhaps to you, it simply means being present on this Holy Day to assuage some sense of guilt and nothing more. > > Beyond every prayer praising, thanking, and acknowledging G-d as the One Eternal, Jews have 13 principles of faith. Me thinks this is a biggie on that list! Yes, even the Reform understand that’s what it’s all about. Otherwise, you might as well be doing the hokey-pokey in the sanctuary every Saturday and holiday. > > If that was just a dodge, I think you could have dodged your boss’ interrogation without caving. You’re haphazardly dismissing everything to which Jews cling as trivial. Your “quote from OP” is not quite accurate, and you’re responding to the misquoted phrase without proper regard to the context, amongst other things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-an-evangelical-atheist-boss/514723.md?page=3)