# How to deal with anti-vax relatives who want to hang out? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932 "2021-05-12T19:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/21 "2021-05-12T21:21:57Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Correction - airplanes have among the best air circulation available _when they’re flying_. When they’re un/loading passengers & on APU not nearly as much. Good point. Then there’s the airport gate area itself, who knows what goes on there. In my defense, the post I responded to specifically referenced “6 hours in a plane” which is a fair estimate of the time to fly from Oregon to eastern Pennsylvania, I think. Still, good point to remember for anyone traveling by air. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/22 "2021-05-12T21:22:02Z")
Nope, not a jerk. I’d meet them outside and masked, but not inside. Double no to them visiting any elderly relatives. My sister is going on a full year of being unable to taste or smell. It’s not something I’m going to risk, even with a very low probability. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/23 "2021-05-12T21:32:11Z")
@Blalron, how do your other relatives feel about your dangerous aunt coming? I’d think it’d be more effective to present a united front and tell her you’d prefer if she didn’t jeopardize others by traveling to see all of you, but if she insists, she should expect to be limited to outdoor gatherings only unless she’s vaccinated and has reached full immunity. If the rest of the family are not similarly inclined, at least convince them they shouldn’t expose to Gramma. Also, you say she’s bringing her boyfriend. Is he vaccinated? Will he mask up? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/24 "2021-05-12T22:00:02Z")
What would you do if your aunt had no weird conspiracy-theory views, but did have a history of severe allergies that made vaccination inadvisable for her? If that would change nothing, you’re not being a jerk. If it does change things, you may still not be a jerk – being vocal about weird conspiracy theories is a perfectly legitimate reason to want to limit your contact with someone – but I think this is one of those situations where it helps to clarify in your own mind why you’re doing what you’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/25 "2021-05-12T22:05:52Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > What would you do if your aunt had no weird conspiracy-theory views, but did have a history of severe allergies that made vaccination inadvisable for her? The comparison doesn’t hold up - someone who could not be vaccinated for genuine reasons could nevertheless have been extremely diligent about masking and social distancing, and have a low probability of being infected. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/26 "2021-05-12T22:06:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I do wonder about the longer term effects on family relationships. Most of those have been trashed due to bad behavior in the election and/or covid response. I consider those who don’t mask, social distance and now vaccinate, to be dangerous if not outright evil. That you can let people die rather than be ever so slightly inconvenienced during a global pandemic? That’s not a disagreement, that’s not a difference of opinion, it’s a matter of character. Blood or not, I’m not keeping those people in my life. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/27 "2021-05-12T22:15:38Z")
I wouldn’t even socialize with her at all. Let her suffer the consequence of her idiocy by not seeing family. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/28 "2021-05-12T22:24:24Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > What would you do if your aunt had no weird conspiracy-theory views, but did have a history of severe allergies that made vaccination inadvisable for her? If that would change nothing, you’re not being a jerk. If it does change things, you may still not be a jerk – being vocal about weird conspiracy theories is a perfectly legitimate reason to want to limit your contact with someone – but I think this is one of those situations where it helps to clarify in your own mind why you’re doing what you’re doing. That is not the same scenario because the mindset & behavior of a person who legitimately can’t get the vaccine because of health reasons is 180 degrees away from the selfish idiots who don’t want to wear a mask because '_Murica!_. Someone that concerned about their health would likely have already been socially distancing and masking. Cutting these morons out of your life may be the only way to get through to them, and if not, have you really lost anything when someone is _that_ despicable? She literally doesn’t care if she kills a loved one. Why do you even want to be around such a person? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/29 "2021-05-12T22:55:47Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You seem to be implying that we are on some inevitable and irrevocable path to this rosy scenario, and it’s just a question of _how long_ until we should let a dumbass relative hug grandma. In my opinion, we are. That’s what the news on numbers is leading me to believe, anyway. But even if the virus does stay as a significant threat, I think we’re still approaching that decision on a practical level. How many governments will be willing to institute lockdowns and major restrictions in the next two years? For how long? And how long will citizens abide by them? Granted, for the purposes of what I was referring to, it’d be a lot easier to justify barring people from Grandma five years from now in such a scenario, but I still think it’s going to be different. YMMV. Ending hijack. (This might be an interesting thread topic on its own, though. Hmmmm.) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/30 "2021-05-12T22:57:45Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > That is not the same scenario because the mindset & behavior of a person who legitimately can’t get the vaccine because of health reasons is 180 degrees away from the selfish idiots who don’t want to wear a mask because ’ _Murica!_ . Someone that concerned about their health would likely have already been socially distancing and masking. But I never said that the aunt with severe allergies in my hypothetical example was health-conscious at all, or that she had been particularly conscientious about distancing and masking. You and Riemann both read that _into_ my example because of your prior moral beliefs. I didn’t put it there. And I do think it’s important that people KNOW whether they are making a moral judgment or a health decision, particularly if they’re trying to decide whether they’re being a jerk or not, which is the question the OP actually asked. (To be clear, I also think he’s totally free to judge his aunt and it doesn’t necessarily make him a jerk.) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/31 "2021-05-12T23:08:42Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > But I never said that the aunt with severe allergies in my hypothetical example was health-conscious at all, or that she had been particularly conscientious about distancing and masking. You and Riemann both read that _into_ my example because of your prior moral beliefs. So the purpose of your hypothetical was to compare one reality-denying moron who has refused to get vaccinated _because_ they are a reality-denying moron, with a second reality-denying moron who is just _incidentally_ a reality-denying moron but is not vaccinated because they have a medical condition? But somehow my “prior moral beliefs” interfered with this perfectly sensible interpretation of your hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/32 "2021-05-12T23:12:57Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > (and the nursing home itself is on the verge of insisting on vaccination for visitors, but they haven’t yet). The nursing home where my elderly mother lives mandates a quick-test before a visitor is allowed in to see a resident. I think it’s a great policy. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/33 "2021-05-12T23:13:56Z")
This one too. But there’s been talk of them requiring vaccination, too. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/34 "2021-05-12T23:15:20Z")
But now would they enforce it? Do you think a conspiracy theorist who is unvaccinated would be likely to have any compunction about lying? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/35 "2021-05-12T23:29:48Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So the purpose of your hypothetical was to compare one reality-denying moron who has refused to get vaccinated _because_ they are a reality-denying moron, with a second reality-denying moron who is just _incidentally_ a reality-denying moron but is not vaccinated because they have a medical condition? But somehow my “prior moral beliefs” interfered with this perfectly sensible interpretation of your hypothetical? No, the purpose of my hypothetical was to give the OP an example that might clarify for them whether they don’t want to see their aunt because they disapprove of her behavior, or because they’re seriously worried about getting Covid-19 from her; which is, IMO, useful information to have, regardless of what you decide to do with that information. (And I didn’t say that the aunt in my hypothetical situation _hadn’t_ been masking and distancing, either. The whole point is to consider how you’d feel about the situation if the aunt’s reasons for being unvaccinated had no connection with her personal beliefs, whatever those might be.) ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/36 "2021-05-12T23:38:23Z")
I don’t know if an anti-vaxxer would lie. In my experience, they always want to fight about it, so they’ll proudly announce that they’re not vaccinated, and then there can be an argument. Just like those loons who refuse to wear a mask on an airplane. They know they’re not going to be permitted to fly without one. And they know if they remove it and argue about it during the flight, they’re going to be met by law enforcement officers at the other end. But they do it anyway. That said, in New York State, the state has this smartphone app called the “Excelsior Pass.” You download your vaccination record (and/or test results from within the last three days) from the state, who has a record, because all vaccinations, and all test results (within NYS), are reported to the State of New York. I suppose it could be hacked, but it’s not a terrible system. Better than the cards, which are so easy to fake they’re meaningless. I’ve seen blank forms online – you’d just have to find the right paper. And when I went for my vaccination, I could have swiped a bunch of blanks off the pharmacy counter, no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/37 "2021-05-12T23:52:33Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > the purpose of my hypothetical was to give the OP an example that might clarify for them whether they don’t want to see their aunt because they disapprove of her behavior, or because they’re seriously worried about getting Covid-19 from her Attempting to separate these two things is completely nonsensical when it his her behavior that is _creating_ the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/38 "2021-05-12T23:55:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why not continue to do so given the risk is no greater than catching a cold (provided you’re vaccinated and do not suffer additional risk factors)? The fully vaccinated (Moderna) wife with no risk factors of my fully vaccinated (Pfizer) co-worker was just infected by their young, infected, obviously unvaccinated children. It’s a fact that the vaccines are no panacea against the unvaccinated and the impact is potentially a lot higher than your average cold. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/39 "2021-05-13T00:48:33Z")
So, **Blalron** , how do your siblings feel about this? And grandma? Have you discussed this yet? Do you think you’ll be able to come up with a unified front? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/40 "2021-05-13T01:08:31Z")
I’m with QuickSilver on this. Do you mind writing off the anti-vax relatives for the rest of your life? Then tell them to stay away. If the relationship is worth trying to save then you may have to make a tough decision. Being vaxxed yourself means that the chances of getting a dangerous level of COVID is rare (maybe even unprecedented). One thing we need to ask ourselves is are we trying to punish the anti-vaxxers by keeping them away? It’s an understandable reaction but is it worth ruining the relationship? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932.md?page=3)