# How to deal with anti-vax relatives who want to hang out? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932 "2021-05-12T19:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/103 "2021-05-14T20:01:36Z")
I’m not just concerned about them dying. But yes, I’m aware of the stats. There’s also the fact that I weigh an entirely preventable risk differently. It may be a small risk, but why chance it? And it would be far more devastating if something very serious did occur to my child. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/104 "2021-05-14T20:05:55Z")
Yeah, dealing with family on this issue sucks. My father in law just came over to see his grandson for the first time in the better part of a year (he is now vaccinated but he was wildly irresponsible throughout the pandemic.) Today he basically said some family members have given up on us because we haven’t been involved in family activities. I can’t fathom what his motive in telling this was, other than to make me feel like shit. But the truth is that my husband’s entire family with few exceptions treated the virus like a joke - one of his uncles even drove to the Capitol to protest state restrictions. I’m pissed off that we’ve been doing everything we can to keep our family - and them - safe. We’ve done so at great personal cost for 14 months now. Our son is 14 months old so he can’t be vaccinated - he just can’t be exposed to unvaccinated people right now. And people are acting as though _we_ did something wrong. It makes me angry but it also just hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/105 "2021-05-14T20:40:37Z")
A lot of irresponsible people really feel a need to scapegoat others for their irresponsibility. If you were staying in touch with your in-laws in safe ways, letting them Zoom with the baby and so on, then you’ve been doing your part to remain “involved in family activities”. If they’re gonna pout and sulk because you refused to join them in their ongoing game of viral Russian roulette, then the hell with them. Not saying you should actually say that to family, but don’t let them make YOU feel guilty about it. As years go by and public opinion settles into disapproval of those who recklessly spread a deadly virus instead of following proper protocols to contain it, your in-laws are probably going to get a bit quieter about their stupid COVID-era “family activities” anyway. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/106 "2021-05-14T20:45:46Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But the truth is that my husband’s entire family with few exceptions treated the virus like a joke - one of his uncles even drove to the Capitol to protest state restrictions. My sister’s husband’s family was like this. They went as a group to DC for one of the protests and all ended up with COVID-19. No deaths, but three hospitalizations of over a week, with my BIL hospitalized a month and discharged for further care at home. We live about a 45 minute drive from them. Last saw them in person pre-pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/107 "2021-05-14T23:36:31Z")
Nope, got to get plane tickets in the next few weeks. Also, much other complex planning about work schedules, where to go, hotels. It’s a cross-continental deal with many contingencies. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2021, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/108 "2021-05-14T23:52:10Z")
I posted in the “news” thread that right now the evidence indicates that recovering from COVID results in lasting immunity, so you can probably act as if the crazy aunt is vaxxed, at least for now. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/109 "2021-05-15T21:07:16Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > And people are acting as though _we_ did something wrong. It makes me angry but it also just hurts. You know you did the right thing, so don’t let it get to you. Our responsibility as parents is to protect our children from dangers. It’s a hard-fought battle. If other people don’t get it, screw 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/110 "2021-05-15T22:00:02Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No deaths, but three hospitalizations of over a week, with my BIL hospitalized a month and discharged for further care at home. Change any minds? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/77aa72/32.png) [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluffy_PickleSniffer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/111 "2021-05-15T22:17:52Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > These are perfectly valid things to wonder about, and shouldn’t be dismissed. > > Nor, of course, should family members who behave in a dangerously irresponsible manner get a free pass because nobody wants to write off family members or anything like that. We do (and should, if you ask me) excuse a lot from people because they’re family (whatever that means to you), but there are limits. > > I described the situation [above](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/20) with an anti-vax sibling. > > That situation isn’t a hypothetical, it’s happening right now. > > I’ve decided that I’ll meet with him and our other vaccinated siblings outdoors, for lunch or dinner (the weather is getting nice enough for outdoor dining now). My kids won’t be part of the meeting, sadly. > > As to the anti-vaxxer visiting our father in the nursing home, I haven’t made up my mind. I’m not sure it can happen, although I’m going to have a conversation with the medical staff at the nursing home and see what they think. > > There are too many high-risk people there (including, of course, our father). They’re high-risk even if they’re vaccinated, given their advanced age and catalog of co-morbidities. And it’s a safe bet that some residents may be immunocompromised or unable to receive the vaccine (I understand that delaying vaccination is recommended if a patient is undergoing some kinds of treatment for some cancers). > > And that is a tough call, because my father’s life expectancy right now is, well, not long, and there’s a good chance that this visit will be the last opportunity for my brother and my father to see each other. > > This isn’t some abstract, hypothetical situation for me. It’s a hard call. > > And I’m absolutely concerned about family relationships and I don’t want to write off any family members, even if they believe wingnut conspiracy theories. And I haven’t, so far. We have, for years now, just agreed that certain topics are off-limits. > > But for better or worse, I’m the one who has sole responsibility for our father’s care. I didn’t ask for that, but nobody else in the family stepped up, so here we are. And I obviously have responsibility for my own children. And I have some degree of responsibility not to endanger others in my father’s current living situation. > > So there we are. Not to derail the thread, but since you’ve decided to go ahead and meet with them (outside), could you have the unvaccinated family member(s) meet your father through a nursing home window? Your father can be seated in front of the window, possibly with you next to him, and the other family member outside. They can see each other - you could even use phones on speaker setting to talk through the window at the same time in conversation. Just a compromise idea to minimize the risk and yet allow them to visit. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/112 "2021-05-15T22:40:20Z")
> [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](#): > > Not to derail the thread, but since you’ve decided to go ahead and meet with them (outside), could you have the unvaccinated family member(s) meet your father through a nursing home window? Your father can be seated in front of the window, possibly with you next to him, and the other family member outside. They can see each other - you could even use phones on speaker setting to talk through the window at the same time in conversation. Just a compromise idea to minimize the risk and yet allow them to visit. It’s a good idea, and I know “window visits” were and are permitted in many nursing facilities as an alternative to in-person close-up visits. Unfortunately, here in NYC, nursing homes, like everything else, are very vertical. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/77aa72/32.png) [@Fluffy\_PickleSniffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluffy_PickleSniffer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/113 "2021-05-15T22:42:53Z")
Oh bother. I hope you can come up with another alternative. Does the nursing home have any type of split-rooms with a window between that could be used? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/114 "2021-05-15T22:45:13Z")
We’ll figure something out. I’ll be there tomorrow (vaccinated, masked), and I’ll talk with the medical staff and see if there’s some safe way for my idiot brother to see his father. Although, if this residence, or the agency State of New York that regulates nursing homes, puts in a regulation requiring visitors to be vaccinated, there will nothing I can do about that. Then that sibling will have to make a choice – get vaxxed, or never see his father again. Entirely his choice. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/115 "2021-05-16T02:13:48Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > t’s a good idea, and I know “window visits” were and are permitted in many nursing facilities as an alternative to in-person close-up visits. > > Unfortunately, here in NYC, nursing homes, like everything else, are very vertical. Jet-pack? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/116 "2021-05-16T11:38:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > No deaths, but three hospitalizations of over a week, with my BIL hospitalized a month and discharged for further care at home. > > Change any minds?? No! You’d think so, huh. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/117 "2021-05-16T11:45:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I wonder if people are using this as an excuse to punish those with whom they disagree politically. I mean, you’ve attended Thanksgiving for years and tolerated that relative you’ve always hated. Why not continue to do so given the risk is no greater than catching a cold (provided you’re vaccinated and do not suffer additional risk factors)? uh maybe because this isn’t about whether you like Fox or not, it’s about whether you do and say things to help spread a disease that killed a half million counted Americans (that we’ve counted)? I don’t want to get sick or die, I don’t want anybody at my house to get sick or die, and I never again want to see anybody who’s indifferent to the situation for political reasons. Act like a political idiot, expect political idiot consequences. The whole “cancel panic” is being pushed by those who want to act like idiots without freedom from consequences. Not in my house. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/118 "2021-05-16T11:49:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If it did, it might be worth it. But since we have no vaccine passports, nor will we, it really just means “no one needs to wear a mask any longer”. Yeah, we’ve just effectively embraced the vaccine “honor system”, and we’re hoping for honorable behavior from people who cheerfully and openly celebrate dishonor. I think the CDC watched videos of folks filling trash bags with gasoline, shrugged their shoulders, and said “we’ll never be safe from those people, may as well reward the rule-followers” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/119 "2021-05-16T12:18:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yeah, we’ve just effectively embraced the vaccine “honor system”, and we’re hoping for honorable behavior from people who cheerfully and openly celebrate dishonor. Or, to be more charitable, to people who don’t believe it is honorable to attempt to protect themselves and others from this disease. They don’t believe masks work, they think it’s inevitable that we will all be infected eventually, they are more frightened of a novel vaccine than a novel virus… But even good, honorable people ignore “on your honor” rules that they believe are stupid or counterproductive. And so, making this move removes the one lever that establishments had to enforce mask wearing of their unvaccinated clientele, which was to require it of everyone. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/120 "2021-05-16T12:25:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > uh maybe because this isn’t about whether you like Fox or not, it’s about whether you do and say things to help spread a disease that killed a half million counted Americans (that we’ve counted)? I think we can establish a correlation, if not causation in many cases. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I don’t want to get sick or die, I don’t want anybody at my house to get sick or die, and I never again want to see anybody who’s indifferent to the situation for political reasons. Well, if you are vaccinated and if you continue to receive yearly variant boosters (as being suggested by science) then you should be alright. But you are making this political. Which is your right and I can’t say as I blame you for feeling that way because Aunt Ethel who treated this as a hoax also made it political by not caring about those around her. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Act like a political idiot, expect political idiot consequences. The whole “cancel panic” is being pushed by those who want to act like idiots without freedom from consequences. Not in my house. Everybody has strong convictions and moral absolutes. Until it hits closer to home than you expect. Then you have to do some soul searching about your high moral ground and the knock on effect on your relationships. The pandemic will pass but the damage it leaves in its wake is yet to be fully appreciated by most. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/121 "2021-05-16T13:13:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think we can establish a correlation, if not causation in many cases. Oh, I see, you think the authorities are lying to you, or in error? What do you know that they don’t? How do you explain the fact that we counted a half million COVID deaths during the pandemic, but an entire _million_ excess deaths? If anything, we’re undercounting. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > But you are making this political. No, I avoid her because she’s reckless, selfish, and negligent with others’ lives. People like that get nothing from me. She decided to be that way because of her politics, but that doesn’t make _me_ the “political” one. Everybody who complains about people “making COVID political” are people who are resisting safety measures for political reasons. They don’t think their antisocial behavior should incur any social consequences, and when it does, they complain that “it’s political”. Well, duh. Play dumb political games, win dumb political prizes. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Everybody has strong convictions and moral absolutes. Until it hits closer to home than you expect. I’m estranged from my own parents over this, so y’know, I’m already up-close and familiar. Thanks for the mini-lecture though. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/122 "2021-05-16T13:19:42Z")
If you were all going out to dinner, and Uncle Dave with the minivan volunteered to drive, and Uncle Dave showed up … **clearly** drunk … would you and the kids all pile into the car and gleefully take your chances with Uncle Dave behind the wheel ? I think the ‘drunk driver’ analogy has worked through the entire pandemic. I still think it works for this kind of (OP) situation. You’d risk offending Uncle Dave. You might even risk permanent damage to that relationship. And … yet … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932.md?page=7)