# How to deal with anti-vax relatives who want to hang out? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932 "2021-05-12T19:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/123 "2021-05-16T13:24:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Or, to be more charitable, to people who don’t believe it is honorable to attempt to protect themselves and others from this disease. Why do you want to be charitable to people who lack the tiny scintilla of charity required to tolerate minor inconveniences to save other people’s lives? Especially when they actively work against those measures? What’s the purpose of that charity? If it’s to model good behavior for them, I’m afraid I have bad news for you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/124 "2021-05-16T13:50:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh, I see, you think the authorities are lying to you, or in error? What do you know that they don’t? How do you explain the fact that we counted a half million COVID deaths during the pandemic, but an entire _million_ excess deaths? No. What the hell are you even talking about? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m estranged from my own parents over this, so y’know, I’m already up-close and familiar. Thanks for the mini-lecture though. I’m not lecturing you. I’m pointing out that some people’s feelings about the impact on their close family relationships is not quite so cut & dried. The fact that vaccine efficacy has mitigated personal risk to a high degree makes severing ties harder to justify when you care about repairing the relationship. Obviously, if you don’t have strong feelings about that, the decision becomes somewhat easier. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/125 "2021-05-16T13:54:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > No. What the hell are you even talking about? This: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think we can establish a correlation, if not causation in many cases. Perhaps I ought to have asked before I inferred, but what the hell are _you_ talking about there, and how is it relevant to this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/126 "2021-05-16T14:01:01Z")
I’m saying that Fox News watchers are more likely to believe the pandemic was a hoax and less likely to be vaccinated as a result of their political beliefs and reliance on bad sources of information. I don’t know why you thought that I didn’t believe the reported casualties by reliable news sources. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/127 "2021-05-16T15:06:37Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Or, to be more charitable, to people who don’t believe it is honorable to attempt to protect themselves and others from this disease. > > Why do you want to be charitable to people who lack the tiny scintilla of charity required to tolerate minor inconveniences to save other people’s lives? Especially when they actively work against those measures? > > What’s the purpose of that charity? If it’s to model good behavior for them, I’m afraid I have bad news for you. Because some of them aren’t lacking in charity, they are misled by false facts. You can believe falsehoods and be a decent human being. And selfishly, because I’m happier when I’m charitable towards others. Being angry makes me unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/128 "2021-05-16T15:25:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You can believe falsehoods and be a decent human being. And selfishly, because I’m happier when I’m charitable towards others. Being angry makes me unhappy. Depends. This is true _some_ of the time. If somehow they hadn’t heard about the pandemic and the vaccines we have to mitigate it, then they can be decent, if extremely oblivious, human beings. However, there are those out there who choose to believe these falsehoods in order to justify their own petty desires. The information is out there for them to make an informed decision, they have access to it, but they choose to not allow it to conflict with their preconceptions. Being charitable is to enable them, to give them no consequence for harming others. People have chosen to consume media that reinforces the false facts that they want to believe, that’s entirely on them. So sure, I’m much happier if I’m not angry, but what also makes me unhappy is the unnecessary suffering inflicted by their willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/129 "2021-05-16T15:59:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No! > > You’d think so, huh. Human beings can be so ridiculously stubborn sometimes. 1.) “COVID-19 is no big deal!” 2.) Get hospitalized by COVID-19. 3.) “COVID-19 is no big deal! Look - I survived!” 🙄 I sometimes think that being able to admit you’re wrong once in awhile is an underappreciated trait. It seems to be uncommonly hard. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/130 "2021-05-16T16:17:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Because some of them aren’t lacking in charity, they are misled by false facts. I’d assert that they gobble up false facts by the boatload _precisely_ because they are lacking in charity. Like, it’s an interesting coincidence that the same people who were enthusiastic about Trump’s cruelty and selfishness _instantly_ gravitated directly to the set of facts that allowed them to be maximally selfish and cruel. I don’t think it makes sense to think of such people as doe-eyed innocents who accidentally stumbled into the wrong news network. They were already plugged into the wrong sources for the wrong reasons and are happily guzzling down wrong information that helps them feel right. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/131 "2021-05-16T16:20:39Z")
Great answer. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/132 "2021-05-17T02:23:37Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > > > That said, in New York State, the state has this smartphone app called the “Excelsior Pass.” You download your vaccination record (and/or test results from within the last three days) from the state, who has a record, because all vaccinations, and all test results (within NYS), are reported to the State of New York. > > Suppose you don’t use a smartphone. Could you get a printed card with a QR code giving access to the same information. Yes. If you go to the website, you can get the pass and print it out. That’s what I did; my phone can’t get apps. Link (only useful if you got vaccinated in New York State, unfortunately, at least so far): > **[Excelsior Pass Plus](https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/excelsior-pass-update)** ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/133 "2021-05-17T05:29:29Z")
I continue to point out to colleagues that should know better that a) you’re acting like a drunk driver refusing to wear a seatbelt, and b) you message to managers, bosses and peers that make decisions about your career seeing that you’re a selfish asshole in a pandemic. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/134 "2021-05-20T21:03:02Z")
It seems my mother has had some success with her “no unvaccinated people in my house” rule. My younger siblings (all fully vaccinated) have desperately wanted to have friends over since March 2020. We live in a very rural, conservative, vaccine hesitant part of the country. But by holding the line on this policy, she has gotten one of my brother’s friends and my sisters boyfriend to agree to get vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/135 "2021-05-20T23:09:00Z")
I wonder if needle phobia has something to do with this. Maybe some are using the fear of the vax to try to justify what is actually a fear of needles and getting an injection. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/136 "2021-05-21T08:37:18Z")
I’ve been volunteering at a city vaccination site that is targeted to underserved communities. But, when not all the appointments are filled, they put a sign out on the street for folks to just drive in. At this point, I figure people coming in have been “hesitant” for one reason or another. I’m guessing around a quarter of the people I’ve helped have been people who are pretty needle averse. They often have multiple people with them for support. The really seriously scared people have been folks who’ve come in on the spur of the moment. I don’t know what they’ve been telling people, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some of them pretended to be hesitant for a different reason. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/137 "2021-06-10T18:15:11Z")
Update: My aunt made her visit last week. I avoided the issue entirely by only hanging out with her outdoors. The weather was good enough to make that possible. We had a backyard BBQ. I drank some beers, and played some badminton with my aunt. Covid never came up. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/138 "2021-06-11T12:16:06Z")
Here’s an example of anti-vaxxer ‘logic’: - if they don’t have Covid (yet), they tell you they didn’t need the jab - if they get Covid and survive, they tell you they didn’t need the jab - if they get Covid and die, they don’t admit they were wrong ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932/139 "2021-06-11T12:59:44Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I wonder if needle phobia has something to do with this. Maybe some are using the fear of the vax to try to justify what is actually a fear of needles and getting an injection. Belonephobia affects a limited but not inconsequential percentage of antivaxers, probably including some of those who liken vaccination to rape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-anti-vax-relatives-who-want-to-hang-out/941932.md?page=6)