# How to deal with sexual assault on campus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565 "2014-10-17T03:36:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/41 "2014-10-17T17:30:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, it would be very unpleasant if a university panel deems that a student is a rapist. > > It would also be extremely unpleasant if an employer deems that an employee assaulted another in the workplace. Do you think employers should keep on employees who rape coworkers unless they are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Employers do ot make “rulings”. They do no publish their “rulings”. If they dismiss an employee for rape, and later publish that fact, they could be on the hook for libel. So, not similar cases. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/42 "2014-10-17T17:31:28Z")
Is a university appropriately equipped to discipline students for plagiarism? ETA: Universities publish sexual assault findings? ---
**Author:** ![RaffArundel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/87869e/32.png) [@RaffArundel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaffArundel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/43 "2014-10-17T17:32:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does anyone else find it bizarre that one of the Harvard Law School professors’ complaints is that faculty weren’t consulted about the new policy? What fucking business is it of theirs? Because the faculty would be the ones primarily enforcing the policy. If there are concerns from the faculty, for whatever reasons, they should have the opportunity to voice them. I have no idea how factual the issues are in the OP, but if in fact the policy tells these professors to violate civil rights, and the Law School professors know it, there is no room for excuses - they are left either violating the policy or the law. Which one do you want them to be guilty of? Too bad Harvard didn’t have a bunch of highly qualified experts somewhere on campus who could have weighed in on the ramifications of the policy… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/44 "2014-10-17T17:35:24Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > This happens all the time. Even in cases where no fault is determined, the University has considerable latitude to pursue remedial action. And prior to this policy directive, there was no regime that allowed for this latitude that did not represent a completely arbitrary decision and even less due process than people are afraid of currently. Due process would not be as major a concern if there is no finding of fault. > [@](#): > > That said, the fault determination is important from a public safety point of view and grants the ability to institute educational sanctions, probation, suspension, expulsion, or determining that someone is persona non grata on University property. > > Again, prior to federal guidelines, there was no uniform process or even policy governing sexual assault. And some school did their very best to bury accusations. Now, due process is required in a timely manner and a full hearing for parties. No one is talking about a rush to judgment. > > And you know what? If an accuser was railroaded, they have options to appeal outside of the school process. Which is also a good thing. Again, assuming the first paragraph is true, this process seems unnecessary: the “consistent policy” should be that all accusations are passed on to the police, rather than (a) buried, or (b) made the subject of extra-judicial process. Why is it so important to have _universities_ in effect “re-create” all of the apparatus of a fair trial, when we have _courts_ that are already specialized in doing exactly that? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/45 "2014-10-17T17:40:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is a university appropriately equipped to discipline students for plagiarism? > > ETA: Universities publish sexual assault findings? They certainly can be here in Canada, though the university retains the discretion to avoid publishing, or to avoid publishing the accused’s names. No idea what the case is in the US. > **[Hearing Process](https://governingcouncil.utoronto.ca/appeals-discipline-and-faculty-grievances/page/processes/non-academic-discipline-non-academic-discipline-appeals/non-academic-discipline-appeals/hearing-process)** > > Pre-hearing > [@](#): > > The Hearing Officer or the Discipline Appeals Board may make recommendations to the Vice-President & Provost that the nature of the offence and the sanction be published in the University newspapers. Where circumstances warrant, the Hearing Officer or the Discipline Appeals Board may also order the publication of your name. > > The Vice-President & Provost has the discretion to withhold publication of your name. Given the stated purpose of such a policy - protection of the student body - wouldn’t you _want_ the name of the person found ‘guilty’ to be published? How would a secret proceeding protect the student body? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/46 "2014-10-17T17:40:10Z")
> [@RaffArundel](#): > > Because the faculty would be the ones primarily enforcing the policy. If there are concerns from the faculty, for whatever reasons, they should have the opportunity to voice them. Faculty do not enforce university student conduct policies. Not only not primarily, but not _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/47 "2014-10-17T17:45:00Z")
> [@RaffArundel](#): > > **Because the faculty would be the ones primarily enforcing the policy.** no, they wouldn’t. The administration would. They may want to use faculty members as witnesses but the faculty wouldn’t be making any decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/48 "2014-10-17T17:51:46Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > They certainly can be here in Canada, though the university retains the discretion to avoid publishing, or to avoid publishing the accused’s names. No idea what the case is in the US. The opposite. > [@](#): > > Given the stated purpose of such a policy - protection of the student body - wouldn’t you _want_ the name of the person found ‘guilty’ to be published? How would a secret proceeding protect the student body? Since a student found to have committed a rape will be expelled, it seems unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/49 "2014-10-17T17:51:58Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Due process would not be as major a concern if there is no finding of fault. > > Again, assuming the first paragraph is true, this process seems unnecessary: the “consistent policy” should be that all accusations are passed on to the police, rather than (a) buried, or (b) made the subject of extra-judicial process. > > Why is it so important to have _universities_ in effect “re-create” all of the apparatus of a fair trial, when we have _courts_ that are already specialized in doing exactly that? Because the courts have their interests, the university has theirs. It’s little different from a company firing an employee because they were indicted for ANY crime. The employee hasn’t been convicted yet, but do you dispute the company’s right to fire him/her? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/50 "2014-10-17T17:54:06Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > no, they wouldn’t. The administration would. They may want to use faculty members as witnesses but the faculty wouldn’t be making any decisions. Again, can’t say how it works in the US, but up here in Canada, the people administering university discipline as “hearing officers” and “investigating officers” are often members of the faculty appointed by the administration for such purposes - and drawn, where available, from members with some sort of legal background. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/51 "2014-10-17T17:59:33Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > no, they wouldn’t. The administration would. They may want to use faculty members as witnesses but the faculty wouldn’t be making any decisions. Sort of, but not exactly. 1. One important thing to come out of this was that every university official has a duty to report sexual discrimination violations of which they become aware. Not doing so opens the school to federal censure and civil litigation. Faculty, as high-contact members of university staff, are definitely called upon to at least pass info up to the Title IX coordinator. 2. While the initial determination is made by a member of the administration (usually not someone at the top level, or with other potentially conflict inducing conditions), there always a secondary appeal process. I cannot speak universally, but in every case I have seen, this forum for appeal is made of faculty, staff, and students from a pool of people trained for the task (serving as a member of these committees requires at least 8 hours of training per year). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/52 "2014-10-17T18:02:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The opposite. Source? > [@](#): > > Since a student found to have committed a rape will be expelled, it seems unnecessary. Huh? They are expelled, and no-one is told why they are expelled, and that protects the students - this person’s friends and colleagues - how? He’s not in jail, and if no-one knows about his alleged offence - what exactly is stopping him from hanging with the exact same crowd as before (and presumably, striking again)? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/53 "2014-10-17T18:07:56Z")
I’ll agree with those who say such complaints of sexual assault should be turned over to the police and the courts. Over the past few decades colleges have repeatedly proven themselves incapable of handling the matter to the point where they’ve achieved the dubious distinction of repeatedly sweeping assaults under the rug while also having trials that resemble star chambers. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/54 "2014-10-17T18:09:20Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Because the courts have their interests, the university has theirs. It’s little different from a company firing an employee because they were indicted for ANY crime. The employee hasn’t been convicted yet, but do you dispute the company’s right to fire him/her? Your analogy doesn’t match, for a bunch or reasons. Not least, in the case under discussion there is no “indictment for ANY crime”. More significantly - at least in “at will” states, an employee can fire someone because they just don’t like him or her any more. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/55 "2014-10-17T18:18:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > He’s not in jail, and if no-one knows about his alleged offence - what exactly is stopping him from hanging with the exact same crowd as before (and presumably, striking again)? If he or she is no longer a student, they lose access to: fraternities/sororities, athletic teams and events associated with them, residence halls (all huge risk factors). It is also highly unlikely their friends will accept ‘reasons’ as why they were expelled. Also, beyond expulsion is persona non grata status, so escorted off campus if identified. College campuses tend to be very insular, so yes, expulsion does remove a LOT of opportunities for further offense. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/56 "2014-10-17T18:20:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Source? > > Huh? They are expelled, and no-one is told why they are expelled, and that protects the students - this person’s friends and colleagues - how? > > He’s not in jail, and if no-one knows about his alleged offence - what exactly is stopping him from hanging with the exact same crowd as before (and presumably, striking again)? I think it’s more to stop witch-hunts and libel accusations. “Hey, I heard that guy from Alpha Beta Zeta raped a girl! Let’s go burn down their frat house!” or “The university was hit with a lawsuit for libelious calling Mr. Smith a rapist, and plaintiff seeks ten bajillion dollars in compensation”. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/57 "2014-10-17T18:24:26Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > If he or she is no longer a student, they lose access to: fraternities/sororities, athletic teams and events associated with them, residence halls (all huge risk factors). It is also highly unlikely their friends will accept ‘reasons’ as why they were expelled. > > Also, beyond expulsion is persona non grata status, so escorted off campus if identified. > > College campuses tend to be very insular, so yes, expulsion does remove a LOT of opportunities for further offense. Would be totally unworkable in the Universities I went to. For example, University of Toronto, which is right downtown. Attendance at athletic events was not limited to students - in fact, the stadiums tended to rely on non-students to put bums on seats … Also, how can someone be identified as “persona non grata” if their offence is nowhere published? Relying on the rumour mill strikes me as outright bizzare. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/58 "2014-10-17T18:57:46Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I think it’s more to stop witch-hunts and libel accusations. “Hey, I heard that guy from Alpha Beta Zeta raped a girl! Let’s go burn down their frat house!” or “The university was hit with a lawsuit for libelious calling Mr. Smith a rapist, and plaintiff seeks ten bajillion dollars in compensation”. There is already a provision that makes it the University’s responsibility to stop retaliation against accuser or accused, just saying. So in theory, lynch mobs are right out. And **Malthus** , not speaking of games, but rather parties and such that are only open to team members. Persona non grata works if faculty and staff are aware of it, as they should be. But the institution should guard privacy in so much as is possible given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/59 "2014-10-17T19:00:08Z")
Whatever the problem may be, the solution is certainly: guilty until proven innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565/60 "2014-10-17T19:01:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Source? I attended two US public universities, and I sat on the student conduct board at one of them. Ask **Stonebow**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-deal-with-sexual-assault-on-campus/701565.md?page=4)