# How to Democratize the Middle East **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707 "2004-08-13T17:00:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/1 "2004-08-13T17:00:57Z")
Seeing as how the entire Arab world loathes George Bush, as seen by them burning effigies of him on the streets, comparing him to Hitler etc… Wouldn’t voting him out of the office sort of prove that that democracy works? If they see a leader they hate deposed of by peaceful means, it would register with them on some level that democracy is better then the monarchies or theocracies they have now. It would make Saudis and Iranians wish they had some method of deposing leaders they dislike. So therefore, W taking a dive during election time would actually do far more to advance his agenda of bringing democracy to the middle east than invading them would. Maybe that was George’s crafty plan all along, become hated and then get voted out. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/2 "2004-08-13T17:03:46Z")
It would make sence _if_ democritization of the Middle east was the one agenda this country had. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/3 "2004-08-13T17:28:14Z")
> [@Brandus](#): > > George’s crafty plan These three words do not belong in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/4 "2004-08-13T18:05:03Z")
Well there are two problems, one of which will remain after Bush is out. 1. Most of the Mid E hates America 2. Most of the Mid E hates Bush ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/5 "2004-08-13T20:25:22Z")
> [@Brandus](#): > > Wouldn’t voting him out of the office sort of prove that that democracy works? Well, yeah, but that’s a dicto simpliciter. I mean, it proves that democracy works either way — whether he’s voted in or out. Did you mean to ask whether voting him out of office would prove that they have substantial influence over our democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/6 "2004-08-13T20:29:10Z")
Can’t democratize a tribal culture. It’s a waste of time. Like painting a frsco on a damp plaster wall, it just won’t last. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/7 "2004-08-13T20:38:25Z")
> [@Brandus](#): > > Wouldn’t voting him out of the office sort of prove that that democracy works? If they see a leader they hate deposed of by peaceful means, it would register with them on some level that democracy is better then the monarchies or theocracies they have now. It would make Saudis and Iranians wish they had some method of deposing leaders they dislike. So therefore, W taking a dive during election time would actually do far more to advance his agenda of bringing democracy to the middle east than invading them would. The Saudis and Iranians already wish they had some method of deposing leaders they dislike. They don’t need us to show them that democracy is better than monarchies or theocracies. If you stop thinking of Arabs as ignorant savages mindlessly going about their business with no thought of making their voices heard in their own government, you’ll go a lot further in understanding what’s actually going on over there. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/8 "2004-08-13T22:49:06Z")
I tell you all once again that the introduction of democracy to the Middle East has about as much to do with our nations involvement with that region as the conversion of the heathens to Roman Catholicism had to do with the Spanish Conquest. It was a convenient cover story but the underlying motive in the case of Cortez, Pizarro, Desoto, Coronado and the boys was not to add soles to the Holy Fathers jurisdiction, it was gold and silver which the Incas and Aztecs had plenty of and plenty of it went to Spain. Now what is it the Middle East has that the West and especially the US might be able to use? Shall we think about this for a few moments before we venture a guess? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/9 "2004-08-13T23:14:20Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Now what is it the Middle East has that the West and especially the US might be able to use? Shall we think about this for a few moments before we venture a guess? Dates? I haven’t had a date in a long time…what do I win? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/10 "2004-08-13T23:19:53Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Can’t democratize a tribal culture. It’s a waste of time. Like painting a frsco on a damp plaster wall, it just won’t last. Total nitpicking hijack, sorry… I thought fresco means painting on wet plaster so that the pigments become embedded _inside_ the plaster itself. Fresco is literally “fresh”. And that painting on dry plaster produced works that wouldn’t last nearly as long because they could flake off. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/11 "2004-08-13T23:25:29Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Now what is it the Middle East has that the West and especially the US might be able to use? Shall we think about this for a few moments before we venture a guess? Got to be hummus. That stuff is great! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/12 "2004-08-13T23:27:21Z")
> [@dwyr](#): > > Total nitpicking hijack, sorry… > > I thought fresco means painting on wet plaster so that the pigments become embedded _inside_ the plaster itself. Fresco is literally “fresh”. And that painting on dry plaster produced works that wouldn’t last nearly as long because they could flake off. What are you, some kind of communniss? Why do you hate America? Yeah, I guess I knew that…shoulda specified a wall that will remain damp for years & years. You got me. When come back, bring pie! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/13 "2004-08-13T23:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > was not to add soles to the Holy Fathers jurisdiction True. That was handled by the guys hanging around on the Grand Banks. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/14 "2004-08-13T23:39:48Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > If you stop thinking of Arabs as ignorant savages mindlessly going about their business with no thought of making their voices heard in their own government, you’ll go a lot further in understanding what’s actually going on over there. THank god someone else feels this fucking way! I’ve been defending that position since, oh about, September of fucking 2001. Chaps my ass. Sam ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/15 "2004-08-14T00:01:30Z")
Here’s the trick. You start with Cyprus, the U.S. pays for moving all the Greek Cypriots to Greece, and all the Turkish Cypriots to Turkey. That leaves an uninhabited island. You move the Palestinians there, that gives them their own country. Then you move the Kurds to the places vacated by the Palestinians, and give them their own country. Then you move… All you need is a big budget. And lots of moving vans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/16 "2004-08-14T00:36:39Z")
To follow up on **Dex’s** post, I would suggest airlifting the Jews out of Israel into let’s say Nevada so that they could still have their own state would solve the entire Middle East problem, and be a lot cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/17 "2004-08-14T11:09:35Z")
While we’re at it, could we also move all the Europeans, Africans, Asians, and other nonindigenous folk out of America? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/18 "2004-08-14T11:21:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > While we’re at it, could we also move all the Europeans, Africans, Asians, and other nonindigenous folk out of America? How many generations does one have to trace their ancestry before they’re considered indiginous? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/19 "2004-08-14T11:24:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > While we’re at it, could we also move all the Europeans, Africans, Asians, and other nonindigenous folk out of America? Well, ya know, Antarctica is wide open. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707/20 "2004-08-14T11:30:24Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > How many generations does one have to trace their ancestry before they’re considered indiginous? > > Marc Well, I’m willing to match mine against yours, if that’s the criterion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-democratize-the-middle-east/259707.md?page=2)