# How to detect an old graveyard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817 "2006-11-17T13:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/21 "2006-11-17T18:50:08Z")
On the subject of graveyards, was Gen. Custers _actual_ burial place ever verified. I do know that he died at the Little Big Horn along with troops of the 7th cavalry. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/22 "2006-11-17T19:01:22Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] How expensive is buying or renting a ground-penetrating radar? [/QUOTE] > **[graves located with GPR – GeoModel](https://geomodel.com/graves/)** > > What is ground penetrating radar? - GPR is a non-destructive method that detects buried features without drilling, probing, or digging. A company specializing in GPR. They don’t list their prices which makes me think they _must_ be really high. Don’t bother with choosing NH from the map, you’ll just get the same phone number that is already there at the top of the page. Maybe you could follow up with a post telling us how much it would cost for what area\> ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/23 "2006-11-18T03:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=SiXSwordS] > **[graves located with GPR – GeoModel](https://geomodel.com/graves/)** > > What is ground penetrating radar? - GPR is a non-destructive method that detects buried features without drilling, probing, or digging. A company specializing in GPR. They don’t list their prices which makes me think they _must_ be really high. Don’t bother with choosing NH from the map, you’ll just get the same phone number that is already there at the top of the page. Maybe you could follow up with a post telling us how much it would cost for what area\> [/QUOTE] I’ve gotten quotes for GPR surveys in the past (for buried tanks and utilities). It runs about $2,500 per day. The minimum charge was a full day. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/24 "2006-11-18T09:25:09Z")
Just look for some [bones, **Napier**.](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NapiersBones.html) (I’m surprised I’m the only one to make this reference so far.) ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/25 "2006-11-18T11:18:12Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] You can’t possibly be serious. There is zero scientific evidence that those people can do what they claim they can do. Zero. [/QUOTE] I was hoping that someone would bite. A bit over 20 years ago my father was commissioned to locate a source of mineral water for a bottling plant, by a continental company. He found a farm in Wales with a momma and poppa bottling operation, they bought the operation. The water supply was inadequate for the volume of production that they wanted to get up to, so another bore hole was necessary. To his astonishment the company shipped over a peasant farmer from Belgium for the day, he refused to stay overnight as his cows would miss him. The old boy wandered around, then marked out a spot and told them the depth and flow. The drilling team got to work, everyone very nervous, then at the exact depth, they struck water - that bore hole now supplies a large bottling factory in the middle of an area of natural beauty. The locals love it, Londoners tried to block it. I only heard about this after the event, if I had known before hand I would have had a covert film crew in place. Six weeks ago, I visited a friend in North Devon who has recently bought a large house in the country. The water supply was inadequate, so he consulted the locals, a water diviner turned up, then the drilling team. I must confess, the water tasted very good. The thing that surprized me was that in both cases the people just regarded it as entirely normal. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/26 "2006-11-18T17:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] So what exactly does one do when one finds a graveyard on one’s property? [/QUOTE] Well, just looking at _Ohio_ law (based on your location tag): [One hit.](http://www.ohiobar.org/pub/lycu/index.asp?articleid=324) And, a [second hit](http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC)–on this one, look up Title V (Townships), Section 517 (Cemeteries). > [@](#): > > _Quoth Sec, 517.32:_ > > "Where the board of county commissioners has enclosed with a substantial fence of stone, iron, or posts and boards, all abandoned public cemeteries in the county, from which the remains of the dead have not been removed, the board of township trustees shall keep the fence in good repair, remove the undergrowth and weeds from such cemetery at least once a year, and pay the expense thereof from township funds. " This appears only to address those cemeteries that are registered and/or known about. I would think that due to a lack of knowledge, most old colonial cemeteries are just not known about and aren’t brought to the attention of the township they’re located in. And from [this website](http://www.ogs.org/about/cemeteries.php), [anecdotal](http://www.ogs.org/research/art_graveyardpres.php) instruction on what the author had done. In some other links I perused but did not include, I think it’s interesting to mention that Ohio Law does not require registration in which there have been no interments within the previous 25 calendar years. Tripler I’m afraid it’s all a dead issue. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/27 "2006-11-18T17:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] I was hoping that someone would bite. A bit over 20 years ago my father was commissioned to locate a source of mineral water for a bottling plant, by a continental company. He found a farm in Wales with a momma and poppa bottling operation, they bought the operation. The water supply was inadequate for the volume of production that they wanted to get up to, so another bore hole was necessary. To his astonishment the company shipped over a peasant farmer from Belgium for the day, he refused to stay overnight as his cows would miss him. The old boy wandered around, then marked out a spot and told them the depth and flow. The drilling team got to work, everyone very nervous, then at the exact depth, they struck water - that bore hole now supplies a large bottling factory in the middle of an area of natural beauty. The locals love it, Londoners tried to block it. I only heard about this after the event, if I had known before hand I would have had a covert film crew in place. Six weeks ago, I visited a friend in North Devon who has recently bought a large house in the country. The water supply was inadequate, so he consulted the locals, a water diviner turned up, then the drilling team. I must confess, the water tasted very good. The thing that surprized me was that in both cases the people just regarded it as entirely normal. [/QUOTE] BWA-HA-HA-HA! You gotta be kidding me! First, ancedotal testamony **is not** scientific proof. Do multiple tests, crunch the numbers, until random chance is eliminated, & then we’ll talk. :rolleyes: Second, you can drill almost anywhere in the temperate zone, & the odds are good you’ll hit water. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/28 "2006-11-18T17:52:10Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] Well, just looking at _Ohio_ law (based on your location tag): [/QUOTE] This is a source (by an Ohio lawyer, but discussing law nationwide) that got cut from my reference section in the cemeteries report: [https://culsnet.law.capital.edu/LawReview/BackIssues/32-2/Shaffer.pdf](https://culsnet.law.capital.edu/LawReview/BackIssues/32-2/Shaffer.pdf) The report: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcemeteryrights.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcemeteryrights.html) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/29 "2006-11-18T18:04:24Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] I was hoping that someone would bite. A bit over 20 years ago my father was commissioned to locate a source of mineral water for a bottling plant, by a continental company… \ I must confess, the water tasted very good. The thing that surprized me was that in both cases the people just regarded it as entirely normal. [/QUOTE] So what’s your point? Are you claiming that the dowsers were responsible for the water? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/30 "2006-11-18T18:19:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Second, you can drill almost anywhere in the temperate zone, & the odds are good you’ll hit water. [/QUOTE] Don’t say that! **Peter Morris** might hear! ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/31 "2006-11-18T20:40:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Ground-penetrating radar would likely be rather pricey. And a metal detector wouldn’t help much, as coffins of that era were wooden. Even the metal probe might not help, due to wood rot. Try a bulldozer. [/QUOTE] A metal detector would be effective, if the site was more secluded. The nails from the coffin, beltbuckles and jewelry within the coffin would be enough. But, in the old days and still in rural areas, people bury their trash on their property. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/32 "2006-11-18T23:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fish Cheer] Whatever you do, don’t bury your cat there. [/QUOTE] On first read, I saw “don’t bury your car there”. I had visions of a new Stephen King movie, a hybrid between Christine and Pet Sematary. [Movie announcer Guy] “In a world where Fish Cheer buries his beloved but wrecked '86 Nova in a cursed Indian Burial Ground…” [End movie Announcer Guy] ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/33 "2006-11-19T08:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] So what’s your point? Are you claiming that the dowsers were responsible for the water? [/QUOTE] I don’t understand. My point was obvious, I gave two instances that I know of where dowsers pointed out where to drill. Both events were watched by people I know well and are not gullible. If I were looking for old graves I would certainly try a few ‘off the wall’ approaches - one often finds solutions from similar problems in different areas. One example is the HTML that we are currently using, it actually came from paper publishing. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/34 "2006-11-19T16:21:10Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] I don’t understand. My point was obvious, I gave two instances that I know of where dowsers pointed out where to drill. Both events were watched by people I know well and are not gullible. [/quote] Anyone can “point out where to drill”. “Look – there’s a good spot!” If you mean that the dowsers were able to detect water using paranormal (or otherwise nonscientific) means, that’s different. Please call up those dowsers _immediately_ and tell them that if they can truly perform as you claim, there is a big pile of cash waiting for them, and if they hurry, they will have the first crack at it. One million dollars, to be exact, and it will take them no more than a few hours of work, doing exactly what they always do. No strings, no catch, just put their mouth where the money is: > **[Home](https://web.randi.org/)** > > JREF: James Randi Educational Foundation After they win the prize, come back here (with pie) and we will consider your claim that dowsers can find graves. Until then, your claim has absolutely no merit whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/35 "2006-11-19T17:41:13Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] This is a source (by an Ohio lawyer, but discussing law nationwide) that got cut from my reference section in the cemeteries report: [https://culsnet.law.capital.edu/LawReview/BackIssues/32-2/Shaffer.pdf](https://culsnet.law.capital.edu/LawReview/BackIssues/32-2/Shaffer.pdf) The report: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcemeteryrights.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcemeteryrights.html) [/QUOTE] Two _very_ informative pieces, **Gfactor**! I especially like this quote: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Gfactor:_ > The dead can’t defend themselves–the fate of their remains is in the hands of the living. I guess I now wonder at which point does an abandoned grave become an archaeological study? I would assume that so long as there is nobody to contest the disinterrment, Indiana Jones could go ahead. But to me it seems like there’s an unofficial, unwritten rule that if it’s an American (colonial or native) grave, you can’t touch it. But if it’s Eric the Red’s stepbrother’s half-sister from 1306 buried in Maine, let’s dig her up to see what the Vikings laid. Tripler Yes, I know the Vikings probably didn’t make it to Maine. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/36 "2006-11-19T17:59:22Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] Two _very_ informative pieces, **Gfactor**! I especially like this quote: I guess I now wonder at which point does an abandoned grave become an archaeological study? [/QUOTE] Similarlly, the NPS has a similar policy with respect to alleged “historical artifacts” in the desert southwest. “Don’t touch! Leave for future visitors to enjoy.” Beer cans, coffee cans, tobacco tins (cowboys drank and smoked a lot back then) are more or less on equal footing to spear points and pottery shards from the Anasazi. At some indefineable point, trash becomes treasure! ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/37 "2006-11-19T18:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] Anyone can “point out where to drill”. “Look – there’s a good spot!” If you mean that the dowsers were able to detect water using paranormal (or otherwise nonscientific) means, that’s different. Please call up those dowsers _immediately_ and tell them that if they can truly perform as you claim, there is a big pile of cash waiting for them. [/QUOTE] Out of interest, would you personally like to lay a bet on this ? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/38 "2006-11-19T18:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Out of interest, would you personally like to lay a bet on this ? [/QUOTE] Sure, only I’d want to reverse the goal: find me a few spots which _don’t_ produce drillable water at any depth. Seems to me if they can tell you where water IS, the converse should be just as easy, no? As stated earlier, one is likely to find water no matter where one drills in most temperate areas, so finding water isn’t much of a confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/39 "2006-11-19T18:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] I guess I now wonder at which point does an abandoned grave become an archaeological study? I would assume that so long as there is nobody to contest the disinterrment, Indiana Jones could go ahead. But to me it seems like there’s an unofficial, unwritten rule that if it’s an American (colonial or native) grave, you can’t touch it. [/QUOTE] It gets complicated. A good resource on this is Cunningham, Richard, _Archeology, Relics, and the Law_ (1999), although it’s written in law school casebook style. If you are interested, I can probably . . . er. . . dig up . . . some of the other sources that I came across when I was researching the report. There’s a lot out there on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817/40 "2006-11-20T15:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Out of interest, would you personally like to lay a bet on this ? [/QUOTE] Lay a bet on what? That the prize money exists? That your dowsers can apply to win it? Why are you asking me this? Have you called your friends and told them how easy it will be to get rich doing what they claim to do already? Are you waiting for a second invitation? As I said before, when they win the Challenge, come back and we’ll talk about how they can find other things like old graveyards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-detect-an-old-graveyard/380817.md?page=3)