# How to end political/pundit/academic career in 5 minutes: say that child porn doesn't hurt anyone. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 1, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692 "2013-03-01T02:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/21 "2013-03-02T21:21:45Z")
> [@pope\_hentai](#): > > Definitely didnt mean to defend anyone who defended causing actual harm to actual minors though. There are a not-insignificant number of people who think pornography only involving adults causes actual harm to actual minors. The pornography debate is nothing but slippery slope, especially when children get mentioned (and never forget that anyone under the legal age of consent is a child just like a seven-year-old is a child as far as the rhetoric goes). ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/22 "2013-03-02T22:37:31Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I know what he meant. It was wrong, but not really all that stupid. > > He couldn’t see why the act of looking is considered the evil part, when it’s the making that is the real crime. It is often exactly equated, when it’s really quite significantly different. > > Of course, he didn’t realise that it was being made to be consumed, therefore… etc etc. But that’s just ignorance, and not really a foolish thought on the face of it. No. If people didnt look then others wouldnt be taking the pics. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/23 "2013-03-02T22:56:53Z")
Yes. I said that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/24 "2013-03-02T23:03:12Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Yes. I said that. Apologies for not understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/25 "2013-03-02T23:55:38Z")
He apparently thinks [Julian Assange should be assassinated](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wLYy7ETO34), as well. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/26 "2013-03-03T01:30:29Z")
Just to add a bit of context for US Dopers: Tom Flanagan has sometimes been called the “Karl Rove of Canadian conservatism.” He and the current Prime Minister go back about 30 years, and Flanagan was credited with the strategizing that lead to the election of Stephen Harped and the Conservatives in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/27 "2013-03-03T01:44:46Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > He apparently thinks [Julian Assange should be assassinated](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wLYy7ETO34), as well. He also appears to have hunted down and skinned the [Sasquatch](http://i.thestar.com/images/48/cd/0a4ab6054276a5774162ea0b7794.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/28 "2013-03-03T04:25:44Z")
Buh-bye Tom. What a maroon. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/29 "2013-03-04T03:54:41Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > But saying that taking a naked kid’s picture is exactly equivalent to raping that child broadens the definition of rape to practical meaninglessness. **Rachellelogram** , perhaps you should check out the definition of “child pornography” used by the [Criminal Code of Canada](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-77.html#docCont), and which is the basis of the discussion here: > [@](#): > > **163.1** (1) In this section, “child pornography” means > > (a) a photographic, film, video or other visual representation, whether or not it was made by electronic or mechanical means, > > indent that shows a person who is or is depicted as being under the age of eighteen years and is engaged in or is depicted as engaged in explicit sexual activity, or > > (ii) the dominant characteristic of which is the depiction, for a sexual purpose, of a sexual organ or the anal region of a person under the age of eighteen years;[/indent] ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/30 "2013-03-04T15:33:03Z")
I remember reading about a case of a Canadian being prosecuted for having (or making?) drawings of children that were naked, possibly sexual. They were drawings rather than photos, but some considered them child pornography, and it sparked a lot of debate, including on this board. 2009 sounds about right, or maybe a bit earlier. Perhaps that’s what the original comments were about, taken out of context? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/31 "2013-03-04T17:23:29Z")
Sounds like you’re thinking of _R. v. Sharpe_, but that was 2001, not 2009. > **[R v Sharpe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Sharpe)** > > R v Sharpe, 2001 SCC 2 is a constitutional rights decision of the Supreme Court of Canada. The court balanced the societal interest to regulate child pornography against the right to freedom of expression possessed by the defendants under section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; holding, that while general prohibition of child pornography was constitutional, there were some limits imposed by the Charter. The decision overturned a ruling by the British Columbia Court of Appeal. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/32 "2013-03-04T17:32:25Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I remember reading about a case of a Canadian being prosecuted for having (or making?) drawings of children that were naked, possibly sexual. They were drawings rather than photos, but some considered them child pornography, and it sparked a lot of debate, including on this board. > > 2009 sounds about right, or maybe a bit earlier. Perhaps that’s what the original comments were about, taken out of context? This matches my theory above: that he was using the word “pictures” distinct from the word photographs and that he was simply tone-deaf to the fact that most people use the word “pictures” inclusive of photographs (in fact, many people say “pictures” with photographs as the _primary_ meaning). When I offered my theory, I had no idea that there was recent controversy in Canada regarding pornographic drawings. Putting it into context, I am now certain that is what he meant. Still, he was extremely stupid not to choose his words more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/33 "2013-03-05T03:48:20Z")
Taking a step back from the outrage, there is an interesting question here: how much should a person be sanctioned for an opinion? At the end of the day, Flanagan is not a policy maker nor is he a part of the justice system. In his opinion he wouldn’t feel comfortable putting people in jail for viewing child pornography. Is **viewing** child pornography a criminal act subject to sanctions of the Criminal Code? If it is, there would seem to be the possibility that a person could end up in jail because they mistyped a URL or opened an email, despite having no way of knowing there was child porn on the other end. On the other hand, if viewing child pornography is not defined in the Criminal Code as a crime, Flanagan’s opinion may be distasteful but also factually correct. As a general principle we should all be uncomfortable with being jailed for things that aren’t crimes. Also, while his opinion is offensive, it definitely falls into the category of free speech, which he is constitutionally entitled to. If I was fired from a job for exercising my constitutional rights, you can bet there would be a lawsuit. And if we’re going to start sanctioning people for expressing unpopular opinions, there’s a lot of people in the comments section of every website who will need to be lined up against a wall long before this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/34 "2013-03-05T05:43:30Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Is **viewing** child pornography a criminal act subject to sanctions of the Criminal Code? Really? You are seriously asking this? > [@](#): > > Possession of child pornography > > (4) Every person who possesses any child pornography is guilty of > > ``` > (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of six months; or > > (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of 90 days. > > ``` > > Marginal note:Accessing child pornography > > (4.1) Every person who accesses any child pornography is guilty of > > ``` > (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of six months; or > > (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of 90 days. > > ``` > > Marginal note:Interpretation > > (4.2) For the purposes of subsection (4.1), a person accesses child pornography who \*\*knowingly \*\*causes child pornography to be viewed by, or transmitted to, himself or herself. So no, mistyping a url will not cause you to go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/35 "2013-03-05T07:03:10Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > If I was fired from a job for exercising my constitutional rights, you can bet there would be a lawsuit. The first amendment applies to the _government_. Not to a private organization. They have have every right to fire him in this case. And even with government jobs you have limits. You can’t just walk up to your boss, call him a douchebag and then cry “freedom of speech!” when he fires your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692/36 "2013-03-05T10:24:17Z")
I’ve got no sympathy for him. Really, that level of ignorance is just appalling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-end-political-pundit-academic-career-in-5-minutes-say-that-child-porn-doesnt-hurt-anyone/651692.md?page=1)