# How To Explain GWB's 2004 Election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751 "2009-01-17T16:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/61 "2009-01-18T20:32:23Z")
> [@BJMoose](#): > > Harrumph. “Deserving” has nothing to do with winning. If you have enough support to win, you win. Whether any particular person _deserved_ to win is quite another question. > > Kinda jumping to conclusions by labeling me a “sore loser”, aren’tcha? I recall being a somewhat disappointed loser, but certainly not a sore loser. Well, if you want to nitpick the word choice “deserve”…have at it, it is the straight dope after all. Sore looser may or not be aimed at you. I don’t really know the details of your thoughts or though processes, nor do I really care. Note that I get the same :rolleyes: when EITHER the repubs or dems pull this stuff when they dont win. See my other rambling post for details. And of course its not EVERYONE on either side either, just the vocal and usually critically thinking challenged. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/62 "2009-01-18T20:52:04Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Katrina. For once people were noticing in real time that Bush was screwing the pooch, and it became clear that he had been doing it all along. This may in fact have influenced people’s perceptions. I can’t understand why. I read the Constitution and see nowhere where it says the President is flood-water-parter in chief, or that people who choose to live in a low-lying coastal area historically prone to flooding and hurricanes don’t owe it to their own damn selves to move, or to evacuate when OMG a hurricane comes in the middle of WTF hurricane season?!?! Not to mention that the Constitution explicitly delegates all non-enumerated powers (including, you know, local health and safety) to the states and their tributaries. Bush may not have “done something” to fix the mess the idiots in N.O. created, but then I hardly care as it is not his job to do so, so my opinion in 2005 was not worsened. The Constitution does on the other hand require that war be declared by Congress. By 2004, it was clear that GWB (with total collusion from a spineless Congress, mind you) had subverted this, and had subverted national sovereignty to go into war for the neocon moles in his administration. Those policies worsened, in the sense that they persisted, beyond 2004, but they were plainly out there. I think one of GWB’s great “achievements” (actual or accidental) was that in 2004, and even now, many conservatives still thought he was, well, conservative, though the non-conservative nature of his foreign and domestic policy (federalizing educational matters, huge spending) were readily apparent. His “base” remained super-energized, it appears, and sufficiently “anti the other clique” to define proper policy as anything that kept GWB and his clique in office. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/63 "2009-01-18T21:23:08Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Bush most certainly did steal the 200 election. Oh please, Septimius Severus got into office over the will of the people, Caracalla was really a puppet and Geta wasn’t even old enough, let alone be a decent candidate. I wish people would stop crying about that one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/64 "2009-01-19T05:03:06Z")
“A republic, _if you can keep it_.” Comments like that make the baby Ben Franklin cry, **kidchameleon**. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/65 "2009-01-19T05:03:32Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > This may in fact have influenced people’s perceptions. I can’t understand why. I read the Constitution and see nowhere where it says the President is flood-water-parter in chief, or that people who choose to live in a low-lying coastal area historically prone to flooding and hurricanes don’t owe it to their own damn selves to move, or to evacuate when OMG a hurricane comes in the middle of WTF hurricane season?!?! [Here](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/09/images/20040908-12_florida2-2-515h.html) is George Bush in Florida when hurricane Frances hit. [Here](http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/1436.hf4286.jpg.image) is GWB handing out rice to motorists, with his brother Jeb just visible in the frame. [Here](http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/1436.hf4286.jpg.image) and [here](http://www.awesclarkdemocrat.com/mccain-bush-katrina-cake.jpg) are pictures taken of George Bush the day Katrina hit. Two days later, [here](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050831_p083105pm-0117jas-515h.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050831_p083105pm-0117jas-515h.html&usg=__UuYQRxVutLC-02tLtptT7Q_RUyA=&h=354&w=515&sz=48&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=_xON0hj-uoDRvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbush%2Bkatrina%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG) is George’s involvement in Katrina, flying over the wreckage while people died. Do you really think both responses were appropriate? If not, which was not the correct response? ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/66 "2009-01-19T05:33:35Z")
My dad has been a registered Republican as long I have been politically aware, and I was politically precocious. He voted for W in '00 and '04. Around '06, he un-registered as a Republican because of Bush’s suckitude. What seemed obvious to me in '04 only became obvious to my dad about one or two years too late. I think he represents a large chunk of the American public. Last time I talked to him about politics was during primary season, and he was supporting Huckabee. Alas, some people are incorrigible. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/67 "2009-01-19T16:44:46Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > [Here](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/09/images/20040908-12_florida2-2-515h.html) is George Bush in Florida when hurricane Frances hit. [Here](http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/1436.hf4286.jpg.image) is GWB handing out rice to motorists, with his brother Jeb just visible in the frame. > > [Here](http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/1436.hf4286.jpg.image) and [here](http://www.awesclarkdemocrat.com/mccain-bush-katrina-cake.jpg) are pictures taken of George Bush the day Katrina hit. Two days later, [here](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050831_p083105pm-0117jas-515h.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050831_p083105pm-0117jas-515h.html&usg=__UuYQRxVutLC-02tLtptT7Q_RUyA=&h=354&w=515&sz=48&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=_xON0hj-uoDRvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=131&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbush%2Bkatrina%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG) is George’s involvement in Katrina, flying over the wreckage while people died. > > Do you really think both responses were appropriate? If not, which was not the correct response? If we are speaking constitutionally or in terms of the actual duties of a President, the one that did not imply that a President is a weather prognosticator, distributor of rice, disaster relief specialist, or custodian of local health and safety. So are you implying it’s Katrina? Then, he got it right there. If he was doing more in Fla. while visiting his brother, I’d say, get back to work and leave disaster relief to the local professionals. What? You don’t have local professionals, even when you live on an exposed, hurricane plagued shore? Well then, Ray Nagin and everyone else in N.O. – the answer’s simple – you’re dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/68 "2009-01-19T19:07:32Z")
I was first eligible to vote in 1976. If I look at each election from then to now, I could have predicted the winner using the “best personality” selection criteria. I’d like to think that’s just coincidence but I fear that it is not. Regarding Dean’s scream: I never saw that an “angry Dean” but that is how it was presented in the media. I thought it was just ineffective cheer leading. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/69 "2009-01-19T20:04:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My personal impression is that Bush’s campaign frightened people into believing that if Bush was not reelected, then The Terrorists would go door to door blowing YOU! and YOUR FAMILY! and EVERYBODY! > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Because a good chunk of Americans did swallow hehe I am so immature. Out of context of course. ---
**Author:** ![shallora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@shallora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shallora)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/70 "2009-01-19T20:46:46Z")
Short answer for 2004: Swing-voters looked at Bush and said “meh” . . . But unfortunately, in their minds Kerry was _even worse_! Actually, much the same can be said of 2008: Swing-voters in 2008 looked at Obama and said “meh” . . . But “meh” was as good as it ever got for McCain (among swing-voters, that is) Shows the great importance of swing voters! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751/71 "2009-01-19T20:58:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Bush most certainly did steal the 200 election. Nonsense! [Septimius Severus](http://www.roman-emperors.org/sepsev.htm) won it, fair and square.\* > [@Huerta88](#): > > given that “everyone knows” (certainly here, but there seems now to be a broader social consensus) that GWB’s two terms were “disastrous” or something like it, and given that none of the policies that made it so were first introduced after 2004 – how’d he get re-elected? The policies may not have changed, but the visible outcomes changed, and as a result, the consensus certainly shifted. It’s hard to overstate the role of Hurricane Katrina in the change in the public’s attitude towards Bush. Before then, it could be argued whether we were progressing in Iraq, or just fucking things up worse every day: you have your opinion, I have mine, and neither of us are there. Under such circumstances, most people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to their leaders. But everyone could _see_ that Katrina was a disaster of epic proportions. Some still try to pin the blame on the city and state governments, but outside the ranks of the true believers, few bought that theory. In the public’s mind, this was clearly a Bush fuckup. And that made them (or a big chunk of them, anyway) come to the conclusion that Iraq was probably a clusterfuck too. Since then, the mixture of incompetence and corruption has continued to chip away at Bush’s remaining support, bringing it down to Nixonian levels. And by the time ‘The Surge Worked,’ it didn’t matter as far as public opinion was concerned: they wanted us to be gone from Iraq, win, lose, or draw. So there’s no reason to see a tension between the consensus about Bush now, and his election to a term of his own back in 2004. \*ETA: How did I miss **kid chameleon** ’s post? I’m a day late, if not a dollar short! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-explain-gwbs-2004-election/481751.md?page=3)