# How to fix college football **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 13, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525 "2023-12-13T05:06:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/41 "2023-12-14T19:58:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > > > > [@TriPolar](#): > > > > > > Start paying the players and everything will work out. > > > > Only in that, after pretty much every school’s female athletes sue for the Title IX violations this will cause, the schools probably won’t have enough money left for football programs. > > > > “But the football team brings in more money!” > > Stateaments like that are kinda sorta the entire reason Title IX exists. You can pay your “football employees” more; just make sure that about half of them are women. (Why, yes, that does include cheerleaders, now doesn’t it?) > > > > “The NBA gets away with paying more to its athletes than the WNBA does.” > > Even if it was a school (“Title IX” refers to some education code), the NBA doesn’t accept federal funding, so it would not be subject to Title IX. > > I’m not at all clear what you are saying there. I get the idea that you think fixing college football would be more complicated than just paying the players, but I’m not understanding what Title IX has to do with it or who you are quoting on the subject. I am quoting @TriPolar from post 12 or 13 Because of Title IX, a school can’t pay just the football and/or men’s basketball players - well, unless half of the students being paid are women, and they’re being paid the same as the men. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Others have suggested not even making them be students at all. Personally I think that’s a terrible idea, but the more the sport becomes a pay for play endeavor the more that argument makes sense. It shouldn’t be a problem for the “really big football schools” to make a clean break from the colleges, except to license their names / colors / mascots and lease out the stadiums for the home games, while the other 600+ NCAA schools that sponsor football keep playing “real” college football. The creation of FBS didn’t seem to hurt FCS, or Divisions II or III, any; why would this? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/42 "2023-12-14T21:43:32Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I am quoting @TriPolar from post 12 or 13 My entire post was “Start paying the players and everything will work out.” Who said “But the football team brings in more money!” and/or “The NBA gets away with paying more to its athletes than the WNBA does.”? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/43 "2023-12-14T21:44:57Z")
Because people are human and this stuff takes generations to build. People are fans of colleges because they or a friend or family member went to school there. Or else it’s the college that’s close by and/or represents their home state. If the teams aren’t made up of students and are instead Crimson Tide Minor League Football sponsored by the University of Alabama, that type of fandom will erode gradually. Fans will die off and new students, who aren’t bumping into the players their age on campus and watching the game 3 blocks from their dorm, won’t backfill when the old heads are gone. Sure, some programs have fans from around the country where they have no affiliation, but that’s a pretty small subset. Alabama and OSU and a few others may be able to maintain a fanbase once the student-athlete thing is dead and gone because they are famous enough, but those schools need opponents. And teams like Ole Miss, Illinois and Colorado won’t. People are way too casual with this kind of fandom. The US is the only place on earth where colleges(!) sell out 100k seat arenas and draw millions of viewers on TV. These are kids, 99% of whom have no future in the pros, playing a game for their school. No other feeder system has a fanbase that rivals the pro league. This is absolutely unique set of conditions and there’s no rule that it has to stick around. The old model worked and built this. Breaking the system and making if NFL lite has no guarantee that it will survive. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/44 "2023-12-16T06:55:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What’s your idea? Keep in mind… I been drinkin’… Shit-can the stoopid Targeting and Reviews. Play the Goddamn game! Did he catch it? Have control? Make a move? Fuck it! Let’s go back to 1980’s. Remember, I been drinkin’… ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/45 "2023-12-16T15:51:12Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > > > I am quoting @TriPolar from post 12 or 13 > > My entire post was “Start paying the players and everything will work out.” > > Who said “But the football team brings in more money!” and/or “The NBA gets away with paying more to its athletes than the WNBA does.”? Who said it here? Nobody…at least not yet. Those two lines are the obvious responses (not necessarily by you) to requirements that the schools’ female athletes be paid as much as the male ones. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/46 "2023-12-16T16:15:29Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Who said it here? Nobody…at least not yet. Those two lines are the obvious responses (not necessarily by you) to requirements that the schools’ female athletes be paid as much as the male ones. Ok, but based on your responses, does Title IX matter for a professional sports organization? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/47 "2023-12-16T17:17:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > does Title IX matter for a professional sports organization? No, because it only applies to schools and educational institutions which receive federal funding. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/48 "2024-02-20T19:03:15Z")
Looks like as good a thread as any. [5 + 7 = 12 team playoff approved for the upcoming season](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39563282/cfp-unanimously-approves-5+7-model-new-12-team-playoff) Winning the conference championship no longer has the cachet that it did before, sigh. Yeah 4 of the 5 get a bye, whee, but now the very real possibility exists that the team which they defeated in the CC will now get a 2nd shot at them. We all know why this was done of course: $$$. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/49 "2024-02-20T19:31:58Z")
Well, that, and the constant arguing about which four teams got in. It’s not so bad if you’re choosing between #12 and #13. Also, if it was entirely about the money, (a) I doubt they would play the first four games at teams’ home stadiums, and (b) they would give serious thought to making it 16 teams. And is giving a team a second chance that big of a problem? There was a time when only conference champions got into the NCAA men’s basketball tournament. What surprised some people is, Washington State’s athletic director, whose vote was necessary (changes to the regulations must be unanimous), supported this. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/50 "2024-02-20T20:01:20Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Well, that, and the constant arguing about which four teams got in. It’s not so bad if you’re choosing between #12 and #13. I recall a fair number of people saying the same thing back then - “oh 4 teams will definitely be enough. We won’t have to argue about the top 2 anymore and surely even if there’s an argument between 4 and 5, the best 2 will be in the mix either way”. Meanwhile, the rest of us were saying it won’t stop at 4, would likely go to at least 8, and there would always be some argument no matter how big you made the playoff field. I give this scheme less than 5 years before the inevitable howling about being left out at 13 begins. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/51 "2024-02-20T20:05:57Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I recall a fair number of people saying the same thing back then - “oh 4 teams will definitely be enough. We won’t have to argue about the top 2 anymore and surely even if there’s an argument between 4 and 5, the best 2 will be in the mix either way”. Maybe, but a lot more were already saying, “How are you going to choose only 4 when there are 5 power conferences?” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/52 "2024-02-20T20:15:41Z")
Sure, and that is precisely the point - no matter what people claim, the majority of college football fans will find any number of reasons not to like the _current_ system, no matter what “current” means at that moment. Some may be mollified for a few years by introducing a new system, but there will rarely, and perhaps never, be a point when a majority of fans are truly satisfied with how it’s decided. And this is not remotely a new problem. There’s a reason why there wasn’t a consensus national college football champion for several decades - because there’s too many teams spread out over too much area in a sport that has too short a season to allow for any meaningfully objective rankings. When demand for a consensus national championship finally got too big, sure, we made one. But it had all the problems we knew it would have from the beginning. And altering it several times along the way has not addressed those fundamental issues - only put on some window dressing and kicked the can down the road a few more years. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maybe, but a lot more were already saying, “How are you going to choose only 4 when there are 5 power conferences?” Of course, this makes the new CFP format even better, since there aren’t 5 power conferences anymore. Heck, we’re more like 2 and a half at this point in football ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/53 "2024-02-20T20:21:37Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Heck, we’re more like 2 and a half at this point in football Only 2. As a commentator put it: the ESPN Conference and the Fox Conference. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/54 "2024-02-20T20:21:55Z")
Yes the new playoffs will essentially be the SEC + Big Ten tournament (both conferences will get at least two teams each in, most likely three), but at least a school from a “smaller” school will have a “chance”. ---
**Author:** ![Frosted\_Glass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frosted_glass/32/3926_2.png) [@Frosted\_Glass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frosted_Glass)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/55 "2024-02-20T21:57:09Z")
You’re right that some fans will complain about number 13 being left out, but I don’t think it will get nearly as much traction as arguments about the number 5 time being left out. Looking at the final rankings I see some challenges and fun conversations about 11-16, but I still see them as fairly interchangeable. This season was a good example of multiple teams being deservedly in the running for the 4th spot, but ultimately they got it right and it showed in the resulting games. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/56 "2024-02-20T22:10:05Z")
Let’s be honest here - there wasn’t a lot of traction about 4 vs 5 either. Playoff expansion, whether in college football or other sports, is never about the ‘what if’ game or deserving teams getting a shot. It’s about revenue. What we did have was a lot of traction about money and how it would go around. That’s why we have 5+7 instead of just 8 teams - the Group of 5 conferences wanted a guaranteed entry and the Power 5 (well, what’s left of them) conferences wanted to maintain their superior status So, yeah, I do still see a lot of griping going on. Will those gripes be legitimate? I’m not even sure what that means. I don’t think it’s really possible to have a legitimate college national championship in football on the field. So I think all the griping dating back to the original BCS and to the earlier era are all equally legitimate, or maybe equally illegitimate. The first time a 12 seed upsets a 1 seed will see some fans complaining about ‘any given bowl game’ and how it’s no longer about finding the best team in football. And others will say they were the best on that given day. And still others about how the regular season is totally devalued. And they will all be equally right (or equally wrong). The true universal truth is college football fans like to debate and gripe, and that’s not going to change, especially with these changes. ---
**Author:** ![Frosted\_Glass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frosted_glass/32/3926_2.png) [@Frosted\_Glass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frosted_Glass)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/57 "2024-02-20T22:23:02Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The first time a 12 seed upsets a 1 seed will see some fans complaining about ‘any given bowl game’ and how it’s no longer about finding the best team in football. And others will say they were the best on that given day. And still others about how the regular season is totally devalued. And they will all be equally right (or equally wrong). I’m looking forward to the first big upset. The hot take loving sports media will go nuts. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The true universal truth is college football fans like to debate and gripe, and that’s not going to change, especially with these changes. There is plenty of time at the end of the season for whining and griping before bowl games start. They have to fill the airtime with something I guess. It has always bothered me that D1 doesn’t just do a tournament like D2 and D3. If little schools can handle the logistics then a D1 school shouldn’t have any problems. They could even mix in home games with some traditional bowl sites. But they would’ve done that already if they thought it would be more profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/58 "2024-02-20T22:40:23Z")
> [@Frosted\_Glass](#): > > It has always bothered me that D1 doesn’t just do a tournament like D2 and D3. If little schools can handle the logistics then a D1 school shouldn’t have any problems. You mean FCS, D2, and D3. The division namings don’t make sense anymore. The issue is the same one that’s been around for decades - between the haves and have-nots. Outside the FBS, conference champions get automatic bids. That hasn’t been the case in the FBS historically and under the new scheme, only 1 team out of the Group of 5 is set to have that. There’s also a maximum of 11 games in the regular season, and the lost revenue can be a deal breaker as well at the top levels. If the interest is in an actual playoff field (though in the lower divisions it’s still mostly determined by a selection committee), the big conferences have to play along. But that means losing playoff spots to the lesser conferences. And there’s no real interest in that. And at the top tiers, it means potentially a lot more games for players who will be risking injury and draft status for not a lot of gain. I can see a lot of potential opt-outs if they’re being asked to play up to 5 or 6 more games on top of a 12 game regular season vs getting healthy and in shape for the draft. Basically money, money, and more money. That’s less of an issue at the lower levels, where very few players have any real chance of making it to the NFL and schools aren’t going to spend or make a lot of money on sports. ---
**Author:** ![Frosted\_Glass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frosted_glass/32/3926_2.png) [@Frosted\_Glass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frosted_Glass)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/59 "2024-02-21T02:13:09Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > You mean FCS, D2, and D3. The division namings don’t make sense anymore. I always forget about FCS. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > And at the top tiers, it means potentially a lot more games for players who will be risking injury and draft status for not a lot of gain. I can see a lot of potential opt-outs if they’re being asked to play up to 5 or 6 more games on top of a 12 game regular season vs getting healthy and in shape for the draft. > > Basically money, money, and more money. That’s less of an issue at the lower levels, where very few players have any real chance of making it to the NFL and schools aren’t going to spend or make a lot of money on sports. Money is definitely the biggest part of the problem. Why risk your draft stock and payday by playing in what may be an inconsequential tournament game if your team can’t go all the way? I know rookie NFL contracts aren’t as lucrative as they used to be but at least NIL can help make up the difference, for now. Back in the early aughts when I was in HS, the top athletes always picked the all star games (State or National vs County or Regional) that gave them the most exposure and the best chance to play at a top school. It makes sense that college athletes would do the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525/60 "2024-02-21T02:40:07Z")
> [@Frosted\_Glass](#): > > It has always bothered me that D1 doesn’t just do a tournament like D2 and D3. If little schools can handle the logistics then a D1 school shouldn’t have any problems. They could even mix in home games with some traditional bowl sites. But they would’ve done that already if they thought it would be more profitable. I am pretty sure the reason the NCAA doesn’t run an FBS football tournament is, the FBS schools, especially the power conferences and Notre Dame, don’t want the NCAA to put its hands on the money. They have seen what the NCAA did with the basketball TV money, half of which goes to schools based on things that have nothing to do with basketball. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The first time a 12 seed upsets a 1 seed will see some fans complaining about ‘any given bowl game’ and how it’s no longer about finding the best team in football. And others will say they were the best on that given day. And still others about how the regular season is totally devalued. And they will all be equally right (or equally wrong). Keep in mind that a 12 seed can’t play a 1 seed until the semi-finals. (12 would play 5 in the first round, then 4 in the quarter-finals.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fix-college-football/994525.md?page=4)