# How to fly the flag without supporting the current jokers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780 "2007-05-28T13:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/101 "2007-05-31T19:16:45Z")
Well, this is pretty simple, actually. Because for most people in America (what I would call “normal people”) flying the flag isn’t a political statement at all. My grandparents who were Democrats and my parents who alternated between being Reagan, Clinton and Bush voters never stopped flying the flag in the first place. Neither did the overwhelming number of conservatives. The only people who did were way out on the left wing of the Democratic Party, and even further to the left of the party altogether, and saw some sort of political component mixed in with old-fashioned American patriotism. And they only did so in very small numbers starting from about the 1960s on. This sentiment would have been baffling to Truman voters, or Eisenhower voters, or Kennedy voters. So the best way to fly the flag without necessarily supporting the current administration is to not have stopped in the first place. The next best way is to start again. As I said above, normal people will not see that flag as a political statement, and neither should you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/102 "2007-05-31T20:03:10Z")
I often disagree with you, **Mr Moto** , but that was a good post. The guys obviously making political statements with the flag are the ones who stick a gigantic flag waving in the back of their pick-up truck, not the folks flying the flag at home. The best way to ensure that only right wingers fly the flag is for left wingers to refuse to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/103 "2007-05-31T20:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So the best way to fly the flag without necessarily supporting the current administration is to not have stopped in the first place. The next best way is to start again. As I said above, normal people will not see that flag as a political statement, and neither should you. [/QUOTE] Just as a clarification, **Mr. Moto** , it’s kinda hard to fly the flag in an apartment building–this is the first OPPORTUNITY I’ll have to do so since it was my dad’s flag (and house). Mostly, the discussion is compromise with my wife, who’s admittedly something of a looney left at times. She grew up in a household that had little time for patriotism, as HER mom is so far left it makes **BobLibDem** look like, well, you–in other words, the kind of household you’re talking about in the second half of your post. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/104 "2007-05-31T20:18:27Z")
I understand. I’ve known lots of people like that myself, trust me. Of course, you must understand, I didn’t meet them until I was relatively older - late teens and twenties. Where I grew up was an overwhelmingly Democratic area outside of Pittsburgh - but those were populist, economic Democrats - mainly union members. None of them ever stopped flying the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/105 "2007-05-31T22:19:06Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I understand. I’ve known lots of people like that myself, trust me. Of course, you must understand, I didn’t meet them until I was relatively older - late teens and twenties. Where I grew up was an overwhelmingly Democratic area outside of Pittsburgh - but those were populist, economic Democrats - mainly union members. None of them ever stopped flying the flag. [/QUOTE] I’m all for flying the flag myself. The politicization started during Vietnam, where the pro-war people made a special point of flag waving, and some anti-war people stupidly treated the flag as a symbol of the war, not of the country. It seems to me that anti-war people today haven’t fallen into that trap, which is good. In the Vietnam era it wasn’t a political party thing - plenty of blue collar Dems supported the war, and flew the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/106 "2007-06-01T00:49:55Z")
Right again. But my parents both opposed the war in Vietnam, but still flew the flag on the Fourth. These things are a matter of degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/107 "2007-06-01T14:52:23Z")
I’m another progressive Democrat who hates Bush and proudly flies the American flag. Fly it and express your patriotism without cavil or apology, despite the pinhead now in the White House. Or you could fly replicas of historic flags, as I often do. Some of my favorites: The Betsy Ross flag, a classic from the earliest days of the republic: [http://www.historical-flag.com/downloads/betsyross.gif](http://www.historical-flag.com/downloads/betsyross.gif) George Washington’s HQ flag: [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-washi.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-washi.html&h=216&w=266&sz=2&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=NG65qWMGvqpTaM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwashington%2Bheadquarters%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-washi.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-washi.html&h=216&w=266&sz=2&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=NG65qWMGvqpTaM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwashington%2Bheadquarters%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den) The Grand Union (or Cambridge) flag: [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Grand\_Union\_Flag.svg/800px-Grand\_Union\_Flag.svg.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Grand\_Union\_Flag.svg&h=533&w=800&sz=7&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=Ni1U2ZNetwBFqM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrand%2Bunion%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Grand_Union_Flag.svg/800px-Grand_Union_Flag.svg.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Grand_Union_Flag.svg&h=533&w=800&sz=7&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=Ni1U2ZNetwBFqM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrand%2Bunion%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den) The Green Mountain flag, flown by revolutionary patriots in Vermont: [http://www.patriotic-flags.com/colonial/green\_mountain\_boys.gif](http://www.patriotic-flags.com/colonial/green_mountain_boys.gif) The Easton flag, a funky War of 1812 militia standard: [http://www.tanyaknowseaston.com/sitebuilder/images/180px-EastonFlag\_1\_-282x183.jpg](http://www.tanyaknowseaston.com/sitebuilder/images/180px-EastonFlag_1_-282x183.jpg) The so-called Lewis and Clark flag, from the Era of Exploration: [http://www.flagguys.com/img/lc2.jpg](http://www.flagguys.com/img/lc2.jpg) The Ft. Sumter flag, for its Civil War history: [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atlasgeo.net/fotw/images/u/us-sumt.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.atlasgeo.net/fotw/flags/us-sumt.html&h=221&w=300&sz=3&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=ZDmO1k2-ygluWM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsumter%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atlasgeo.net/fotw/images/u/us-sumt.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.atlasgeo.net/fotw/flags/us-sumt.html&h=221&w=300&sz=3&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=ZDmO1k2-ygluWM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsumter%2Bflag%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780/108 "2007-06-01T14:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I understand. I’ve known lots of people like that myself, trust me. Of course, you must understand, I didn’t meet them until I was relatively older - late teens and twenties. Where I grew up was an overwhelmingly Democratic area outside of Pittsburgh - but those were populist, economic Democrats - mainly union members. None of them ever stopped flying the flag. [/QUOTE] You’ve just described my mom’s side of my family. =P (my dad’s side are mostly Goldwater-style Republicans, to whom I generally feel closer kinship despite voting mostly Democrat these days.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-fly-the-flag-without-supporting-the-current-jokers/405780.md?page=5)