# How to get started in listening to Wagner? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836 "2011-05-23T00:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/1 "2011-05-23T00:59:15Z")
When I was in high school, I used to read the audiophile magazines and they always debated about what Wagner recordings to listen to. Of course, they carried a very high price tag, so outside from a few PBS opera shows, I’m not very familiar with Wagner. I’ve heard some of the instrumental music from his operas, but I’m not very familiar with the Ring Cycle or any other of Wagner’s operas. Should I buy some recordings first? I remember a lot of reviews talking about how great the Solti recordings were and comparing them with various other recordings. Should I start with DVDs? I’ve often heard that you really need to experience Wagner rather than listen to him. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/2 "2011-05-23T01:13:24Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > When I was in high school, I used to read the audiophile magazines and they always debated about what Wagner recordings to listen to. Of course, they carried a very high price tag, so outside from a few PBS opera shows, I’m not very familiar with Wagner. I’ve heard some of the instrumental music from his operas, but I’m not very familiar with the Ring Cycle or any other of Wagner’s operas. > > Should I buy some recordings first? I remember a lot of reviews talking about how great the Solti recordings were and comparing them with various other recordings. > > Should I start with DVDs? I’ve often heard that you really need to experience Wagner rather than listen to him. Definitely find some DVDs (or Blu Rays). Your local library may have some you can check out. I’d suggest the Ring Cycle as a perfectly good place to start. Any of the available sets should serve you well. Other very approachable Wagner operas include _Tannhäuser_, _Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg_, and _Der Fliegende Holländer._ Don’t worry about “best production” or “best recording,” yet. Just enjoy. Best of all is to see one live, of course. My first Wagner was _Tristan und Isolde_, and I was mesmerized. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/3 "2011-05-23T01:32:29Z")
It’s funny - we were just talking about live vs. broadcast or recorded opera today… The best way to experience Wagner is as a live opera. Here is a link to the [OperaBase](http://operabase.com/coords.cgi?id=none&lang=en&map=na) interactive maps. It may mean catching one on a trip somewhere, or taking a special trip. It’s like sports - you can follow a team through radio broadcasts or TV, but there’s nothing like seeing the game live. On TV, it looks like anybody could skate from one net to the other, but at the hockey arena, you see how fast those guys are moving and how hard they have to work to do it. Distant second bests - I actually prefer audio recordings to DVDs - I can stage the opera in my head cast with whomsoever I choose. Sadly, with recordings you lose the goosebumps of hearing a real singer live on stage with no amplification. With DVDs, you see an opera production as someone else envisioned it, shot for television. It’s amusing to see that Renee Fleming has nose hairs like everyone else, but I don’t care much for it. The same is true, I find, of the Met HD broadcasts to theatres. It’s convenient and it’s very nice, but it doesn’t have the same effect as a live performance. As to works and performances, well, _Rheingold_ and _Tristan and Isolde_ were the two works I started with. I loved picturing the show in my head. Specifically, I listened to the Solti recording of Rheingold and the Furtwängler recording of Tristan. The sound quality of the Furtwängler is not up to modern standards - the performance is beyond ever being excelled, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/4 "2011-05-23T01:38:14Z")
[The obvious starting point](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlmXU1zqfc) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/5 "2011-05-23T02:05:29Z")
I found a greatest hits tape and went right away to the Furtwangler Ring. I later could afford the Solti Ring through Time-Life. 🙂 The Ring appealed to me from the fantasy standpoint-Dragons, magic swords, fair maidens in distress and kicking ass. The Flying Dutchman has a wonderful scene where the local sailors are getting drunk and taunt the Dutchman’s ghostly crew. They respond how their sails are filled by Satan’s winds and scare the hell out of the other guys. Tristan is good, and Lohengrin has a great fight scene. Anyway, if you like dragons and magic swords, I’d start with Das Rheingold. I weep at the end, when the Rheinmaidens lament the loss of their gold. I avoid DVDs because of the strange stage settings and costume. I prefer it the way Wagner intended. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/6 "2011-05-23T02:27:50Z")
And[here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f27SlOFJ55M) is what they will play at my funeral. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/7 "2011-05-23T06:14:27Z")
Any decent CD store will have a classic music section which will have a “Highlights of the Ring” and other Wagner selections. Check them out. Then you can decide what to invest serious money in. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/8 "2011-05-23T06:44:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > [The obvious starting point](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlmXU1zqfc) [I think this is more in the spirit of the Valkyries.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpvLCptAHT8) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/9 "2011-05-23T06:45:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > [The obvious starting point](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQlmXU1zqfc) Or [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv7G92F2sqs). ---
**Author:** ![Promethea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Promethea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Promethea)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/10 "2011-05-23T06:57:34Z")
The [overtures and preludes](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Overtures-Preludes-Richard/dp/B000002S08)are a nice starting point, I think. I can’t vouch for other recordings, but the one in the link, conducted by Sir Adrian Boult is wonderful. For what it’s worth, I got into Wagner from watching _Excalibur_. Several pieces are used, but especially Siegfried’s Funeral march. I thought the music was just so, so beautiful. So if you haven’t seen _Excalibur_, I recommend that route - the pieces I heard there are still some of my favourites. ETA: Ack, sorry - you mentioned you already had the orchestral bit down, I missed that. Ah well, go watch Excalibur anyway 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/11 "2011-05-23T17:32:48Z")
I looooove the Ring Cycle (though I’ve yet to do any more Wagner – I’m paying attention to the recs in this thread!), especially Die Walkure – I second the idea that seeing DVDs is good, because you get more of the idea of the whole experience, story and all. I just got whatever Netflix had the entire cycle of, I believe it was the Pierre Boulez version – I liked some of his choices and didn’t like others (casting and directing of Siegfried, for example, I thought was really awful), but my point is that I _responded_ to it. I also always recommend getting operas in English unless you understand German; I find my opera experience is enriched when I can think of it in my head as dialogue as well as music. Here’s a link to [Chandos Opera’s Rhinegold](http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Rhinegold-Derek-Hammond-Stroud/dp/B00005B550/ref=pd_sim_m_1) (you can get the rest of the Ring, as well as Parsifal it looks like – maybe I’ll do that next! – from links from that page). ---
**Author:** ![cain7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@cain7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cain7)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/12 "2011-05-23T18:21:07Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > When I was in high school, I used to read the audiophile magazines and they always debated about what Wagner recordings to listen to. Of course, they carried a very high price tag, so outside from a few PBS opera shows, I’m not very familiar with Wagner. I’ve heard some of the instrumental music from his operas, but I’m not very familiar with the Ring Cycle or any other of Wagner’s operas. > > Should I buy some recordings first? I remember a lot of reviews talking about how great the Solti recordings were and comparing them with various other recordings. > > Should I start with DVDs? I’ve often heard that you really need to experience Wagner rather than listen to him. Do you have an audio setup? Wagner generally tends to be fairly demanding and if you don’t have a decent setup fully appreciating what’s going on sans visual cues might be challenging. The Solti recordings are fantastic. It’s widely thought, however, that Solti’s best work was earlier with the 1971 Mahler 8. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/13 "2011-05-23T18:29:13Z")
Just remember, Mark Twain summarized Wagner’s music perfectly when he famously remarked, “Wagner has sublime minutes, and horrible quarter hours.” ---
**Author:** ![cain7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@cain7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cain7)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/14 "2011-05-23T18:30:05Z")
Ooops. The Mahler work I was referring to was _after_…not that it matters 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/15 "2011-05-23T18:40:46Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Just remember, Mark Twain summarized Wagner’s music perfectly when he famously remarked, “Wagner has sublime minutes, and horrible quarter hours.” Sounds like a great recommendation to me. 🙂 There is, of course, [Anna Russell.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv7G92F2sqs&playnext=1&list=PL9B3FCCF5683311F1) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/16 "2011-05-23T19:08:33Z")
> [@cain7](#): > > The Solti recordings are fantastic. Warning: the Solti _Das Rheingold_ was sped up to fit on three LPs; the CD version I have retains the altered pitch. The famous one-chord prelude is an E instead of an E-flat! Netflix carries a fine Bayreuth production of _Die Meistersinger_, one of Wagner’s lighter operas, conducted by Horst Stein–I recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/17 "2011-05-23T19:13:39Z")
I found that this [Radiolab](http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-blog/2008/jan/01/the-ring-and-i/)piece served as a nice entry point to the Ring Cycle for me. The Ring Cycle might not be the best place to start in a vacuum, but there is a lot of material out there to help you sink your teeth into it. ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/18 "2011-05-23T21:20:33Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Just remember, Mark Twain summarized Wagner’s music perfectly when he famously remarked, “Wagner has sublime minutes, and horrible quarter hours.” I think this one is actually by Rossini. Mark Twain is said to have stated that “Wagner’s music is better than it sounds”, but according to [snopes](http://www.snopes.com/quotes/twain.asp) that’s not by him either. One way or the other, I agree with the feeling. I find Wagner’s music both beautiful and impossible to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/19 "2011-05-23T21:36:02Z")
To me, Wagner is the culmination of musical theater. You just can’t beat the moments where the music physically hits you over the head or in the middle of the stomach, they’re well worth sitting through some of the more challenging stretches. The transition in the middle of the third act of Lohengrin regularly brings tears to my eyes, as does the third act of Tannhäuser - the best hour of music ever written, IMHO. That’s also why I would recommend Tannhäuser as a good starting point for Wagner - it’s still fairly traditional in its layout (you still have very distinct arias, for instance, although there are no breaks in the music), very accessible, but it definitely hints at the greatness that’s about to come in later works. I’m very fortunate to live in a city with three operas, two of which perform Wagner on a regular basis. There really is nothing like seeing it live, although I will second that listening to Solti comes pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836/20 "2011-05-23T21:36:21Z")
Yes, I can only listen to Wagner in excerpts. The unabridged operas are boring as hell, unless you’re a real aficionato . . . or masochist. I’ve attended a few live performances, and even have some CDs, but I find myself impatiently waiting for the “good parts.” The only live performance I loved was back in the mid-80s, when Hildegarde Behrens was called in, to pinch-hit for an obviously ailing Brunhilde. It was a privilege to attend this performance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-get-started-in-listening-to-wagner/582836.md?page=2)