How to kill/disable an attacking dog?

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=Harmonious Discord]
One thing to remember in a frenzy pain won’t stop a dog. I doubt you’d be able to grab the legs and swing it at all. Breaking the back would not necessarily cause the dog to stop ravishing a person at their jaw’s reach.
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I’m not sure if you are responding to my post or something else. Lifting the hindquarters causes no pain to the animal, nor was I suggesting breaking the dog’s back. I also don’t believe I said anything about swinging the animal. Raising the hindquarters causes the dog’s jaw to slack and it will try to gain better purchase. Without it’s rear legs on the ground, a dog has almost no leverage to drive forward and can be removed from the fray much more easily by dragging it backwards. I’ve seen this done by countless mushers, dealing with very muscular animals. For another reference, see Dog Whisperer episodes where Cesar breaks up dog fights with the same method.

22

[QUOTE=adam yax]
With some dogs, this is useless. Last fall a dog attacked my dog and eventually bit me. That dog had husky like hair and I did kick it in the chest as hard as I could, but the hair absorbed most of the kick, there was nothing to it when I actually made contact with the dog.
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Good point. I guess when I think of an attacking dog I generally envision dogs such as pits, dobes, rotts, or even shephards. Chows or huskies do have much more padding.

Also, I did martial arts including thai boxing and kickboxing for some time, so perhaps I am somewhat over-confident in my personal ability to kick. Also, from my MA background, I would not expect a single kick to disable the dog or stop the attack.

I saw someone hitting a pit over the head and back with a broom handle, and then a baseball bat - to no effect. I do not think, however, that the person was especially trying to injure the dog. Also, if you have a bat or broom handle and know how to use it, you can use it to maintain your distance from the dog. In short, fighting with a 2-handed weapon like a bat does NOT mean swinging it like Ted Williams.

When I think of how I personally would handle an attacking dog, I rely on the fact that I am 200#, in decent shape, and have a pretty high pain tolerance. If a dog were doing anything other than nipping at me, I would not hesitate to do whatever it took to disable or kill it.

23

I’ve owned and have been around dogs most of my life (long life. LOL) and some of those dogs have been pretty danged aggressive, to the point, a few had to be put down (not ones I owned though) … i’ve NEVER been attacked outright. Mainly because I have no fear of even the most vicious dog. They don’t mess with me… all 5’1" 100lbs of me. I don’ do anything that will set off their natural prey drive, I don’t antagonize them, I keep the upper alpha handle on them at all times.

But, if you see someone being attacked, yank tails, or pull their back legs out from under them. Nothing can fight well when it’s been unblanced. Dogs who can’t use their back legs because you’re holding them, have NO leverage.

And, dogs can be remarkably stupid (god love them) most are only barely aware that their back ends are actually a part of their bods, there’s a mental disconnect in a dog when it comes to its hind quarters and tail. Touching/handling them in that area generally confuses them temporarily and they don’t know how to compensate.

24

[QUOTE=Chefguy]
I’m not sure if you are responding to my post or something else. Lifting the hindquarters causes no pain to the animal, nor was I suggesting breaking the dog’s back. I also don’t believe I said anything about swinging the animal. Raising the hindquarters causes the dog’s jaw to slack and it will try to gain better purchase. Without it’s rear legs on the ground, a dog has almost no leverage to drive forward and can be removed from the fray much more easily by dragging it backwards. I’ve seen this done by countless mushers, dealing with very muscular animals. For another reference, see Dog Whisperer episodes where Cesar breaks up dog fights with the same method.
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That little bit was for Acid Lamp’s post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don’t ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.

25

Just coming back in to say that this hind-leg technique is a great thing to have in the mental warehouse. Not intuitive, but the explanations make sense, and it seems least likely to harm the dog.

From the perspective of an individual being charged or attacked, though, it would seem to be of little use. Those who know more than me, and there are several in this thread, what would be advised in that situation?

26

Thanks to everyone for the replies. The lift up their back legs idea is great if trying to get a dog off someone else; not sure we have an answer if Rottweiler has its joys clamped round MY arm :dubious:

I agree absolutely with Miss Tsk Tsk about making sure you’re the alpha dog but this not always possible with somebody else’s dog where they may not even realise their owner is a superior pack member.

27

[QUOTE=Harmonious Discord]
That little bit was for Acid Lamp’s post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don’t ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.
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Again, depends on who you are and what you are capable of. Having been in the ring with 300+ pound guys, I have no doubt that if the situation called for it I would be able to swing an 80-90# dog into the nearest hard object, even if I was swinging it because its jaws were clamped onto my arm. Yeah, the hind legs would be a preferable handle. But I was coming from the point of view of a dog rushing towards me.

Also, having been around dogs all my life, I have not encountered a dog yet that I was not able to intimidate and dissuade from attacking just by my posture and voice. But we’re talking worst-case scenarios here.

Self defense - in all of its manifestations - is ugly shit. And there are no easy answers, and no substitutes for being fit, aware, and considering possibilities beforehand. I think a lot of people get fucked up because they are unwilling and slow to admit that they are in a violent situation and respond in kind.

28

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Self defense - in all of its manifestations - is ugly shit. And there are no easy answers, and no substitutes for being fit, aware, and considering possibilities beforehand. I think a lot of people get fucked up because they are unwilling and slow to admit that they are in a violent situation and respond in kind.
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I think this is a real stumbling block and one I have considered about myself with no resolution in my mind.

Resorting to violence has always been very, very low on my list. I am certainly no pacifist and have gotten violent on a few rare occasions but in almost all respects opting to go there is far from my mind.

As such I may be slow, too slow, to realize and respond appropriately to a legitimate threat to my life (or those around me). I too have been around dogs my whole life and have no desire to kill or maim one unnecessarily. I have been chased and threatened by dogs and like others here I dealt with it without either of us getting hurt.

As a result I may not move to the next level of response quick enough if the dog is intent on tearing my head off. By the time I realize I am in a fight for my life I could be at a serious disadvantage (make no mistake once I make the decision it is a life threatening issue I will do whatever I can to kill/disable that dog by any violent means at my disposal).

Not sure how to sort this. I do not want to start resorting to aggression faster in case 1 out of 10 times it is merited. But I do not want to die/end up in the hospital either.

I dunno…just keep hoping for luck on this one I guess and not have to face it.

29

Most dogs can be intimidated by the brandishing of a weapon, such as a large stick.

When I go walking through the countryside, I always take a heavy walking stick. On a couple of occasions, I’ve encountered growling dogs on the loose (I assume semi-feral farm-dogs). A yell and waving the stick has always been enough to see them off - at least so far.

30

[QUOTE=MarcusF]
Thanks to everyone for the replies. The lift up their back legs idea is great if trying to get a dog off someone else; not sure we have an answer if Rottweiler has its joys clamped round MY arm :dubious:

I agree absolutely with Miss Tsk Tsk about making sure you’re the alpha dog but this not always possible with somebody else’s dog where they may not even realise their owner is a superior pack member.
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Depends, if they have their jaws (or joys. LOL) locked on your arm (which not all breeds will do, some maul, some are clampers), stay still, try to stay calm, posture into the highest most threatening position possible, staring right into their eyes, and a firm NO in the best most authorative voice sometimes work. Regardless, showing no fear, staying still and staying high above them if possible is always the first thing to do.

German shepards are clampers, you can see this in police dogs, they clamp and lock their jaws on prey and don’t let go until they’re intimidated or called off by their owners or someone that knows the right words to use with them. The back leg technique is SUPER effective with clampers because they really use their back legs for leverage (think a dog playing tug-o-war with you)

Staffordshire terriers, like most sporting terriers are maulers or shakers… in some cases, the best thing to do in a vicious attack, if you can’t reach their back ends and can’t get an upper position on them, is to curl up and protect your face and neck at all costs because that’s where they will instinctually attack. They were traditionally bred as ratters/vermin hunters and often kill their prey by breaking its neck. Kicking a staffie in the head is pretty fruitless, they have tough boney heads and boney tough chests. Sometimes playing “dead” with these dogs is quite effective; protect your face and neck any way possible. They’re not apt to attack your belly, or other areas of your body.

This is one reason so many people are so dead against people owning Staffies. (personally, I love them), it’s very difficult to protect yourself from one of their blind mauling rages. They are built and bred as killing machines with incredibly strong prey drive… that doesn’t mean they’re bad dogs, not at all, but they can be very dangerous given the work they were bred to do naturally.

31

[QUOTE=Harmonious Discord]
That little bit was for Acid Lamp’s post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don’t ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.
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Depends on the person. I’m not a large man, 5’7 155-160, and I routinely wrestle with my dog who is 65 lbs. I have no problem picking her up at all even when she does not care to be held. It is just one of several alternatives that was suggested to us. The actual advice given to us regarding fighting an attack dog, was “Shoot it.”

What you do and how you handle it will depend greatly on both yourself, and how the altercation occurs. You won’t have time to evaluate and plan, only react. The trick is to minimize injury and maximize retaliation.

32

When I was being trained in a rather obscure military service years ago we had an instructor come in, and he suggested this. He was totally sincere and he said it had worked for him during World War II in North Africa. Fortunately, I never got to try it.

He said when the dog attacks, you give it your left forearm to bite (He said trained guard dogs have been taught to take the arm) as it does you cram the forearm hard into the mouth (this, he said will lessen the pain in the arm. He said that when the dog’s mouth is fully open it has less power than when it is half way closed). At this ooint you use your leverage (of the arm in the mouth) to turn the dog on its back. With your arm firmly in its mouth, you then bite the dog in the throat hard and rip at it until the dog is either dead or has bled so much that it is not a threat any longer.

As I said I never got the chance to try it. Darn.

33

If the dog was attacking me, I’d probably try to kick it in the mouth, with the goal being to break its jaw. As mentioned above, most dogs don’t use their claws much, so if I can render it unable to bite, I’ve won. If it was attacking someone else, or my pet, I’d probably kick it in the genitals, and then when it turned around to attack me, kick #2 would be aimed at its mouth, as mentioned above.

Does this sound like a reasonable strategy?

34

If you can get on top of the dog, I think using your weight to crush the dog’s ribcage will asphyxiate the animal. Severe blows to the ribcage may also cause trauma to the heart or lungs that may eventually stop the dog.

35

[QUOTE=TV time]
When I was being trained in a rather obscure military service years ago we had an instructor come in, and he suggested this. He was totally sincere and he said it had worked for him during World War II in North Africa. Fortunately, I never got to try it.

He said when the dog attacks, you give it your left forearm to bite (He said trained guard dogs have been taught to take the arm) as it does you cram the forearm hard into the mouth (this, he said will lessen the pain in the arm. He said that when the dog’s mouth is fully open it has less power than when it is half way closed). At this ooint you use your leverage (of the arm in the mouth) to turn the dog on its back. With your arm firmly in its mouth, you then bite the dog in the throat hard and rip at it until the dog is either dead or has bled so much that it is not a threat any longer.

As I said I never got the chance to try it. Darn.
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Your username is extraordinarily appropriate for this post.

36

Due to some local residents habit of walking large, aggressive ( Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) off leash, I’ve taken to carrying my gun when walking my dog. My mind set has become “shoot the damn dog first and its damn owner second.” I doubt my reflexes would be up to it, though.

37

When riding the back roads on my motorcycle, I go slow, gravel and long front ends do not do well … When the dogs come a barking, I ride lowly out of sight of their house, stop and shot a couple rounds into the road. Scares the hell out of the dogs and their owners also. They think they have just lost a couple of dogs.
Never had a dog continue the attack when the gun goes bang…

38

[QUOTE=LouisB]
Due to some local residents habit of walking large, aggressive ( Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) off leash, I’ve taken to carrying my gun when walking my dog. My mind set has become “shoot the damn dog first and its damn owner second.” I doubt my reflexes would be up to it, though.
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Anecdote: an acquaintance of mine was mauled a few years ago. When the police got there, the dog took a full magazine of whatever it is LA Sheriff carries (9mm I’m guessing?). It took a few 12ga to finish the job. She lost a breast and cannot use her right arm. If the dog is big enough and wants to chomp you bad enough, it’ll take a bit to bring it down.

39

If being attacked, see if you can grab the muzzle and hold it closed. I’ve done this to dogs- stare them in the eyes, and within seconds they demonstrate submissive body language and behavior (whining, tail between legs, ears down but not flat, etc). I’ve also heard it recomended as a way to train dogs non-violently if they’re agressive. Dogs aren’t as bad as crocodiles, but still can’t exert too much force in opening the jaw relative to closing it.

Some dog breeds, you can twist their ears to cause them mind-bending pain- this technique is, as I understand, used to train Rottweilers, because their ears are atypically sensitive to touch. My sister was warned when training her Rottweiler never to strike it anywhere near the ears, because the dog may turn mean and viscious.

Striking a leaping dog between the eyes sharply or kicking it in the collarbone between the legs will often drive it off. Dogs go for the throat when killing each other, locking an arm around a dog’s throat from behind while holding a second hand on its head such as it can’t turn to bite you might also work, but you have to trust your reflexes and be willing to put your face near those teeth.

Now, if a dog is determined to kill, or trained to ignore attempts to incapacitate, more or less you need to kill it. Just remember that they can only lift their heads so far up, so if you can get behind or to the side of it, you can control its head worst case and wait for help.

40

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
I have heard many people comment that if a dog is upon you, you can injure it by spreading it’s legs, as if snapping a wishbone. But I have no idea as to the accuracy of this
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An ex-soldier stated that on a chat show in the UK, to which the host Clive Anderson enquired is it something that could be done to an annoying poodle in the park.

Of course, the soldier’s first answer was just to shoot them :wink:
Personally, I’ve given it thought now that I’ve my little girl to walk about the city streets with. Survival techniques start with lifting her up out of the way and into a garden with a fence if I can then for myself, make sure the dog doesn’t get me down on the ground and kick at its face if cornered or stuck.