# How to make references etcetera in English
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 9, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104 "2015-06-09T21:21:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/1 "2015-06-09T21:21:12Z")
I’m writing a sort of dictionary, with references and sources, in English. However, English is not my native language and even though I know the language fairly well, I’ve never written this kind of text and I’ve stumbled upon a few things regarding references that I’m not sure of. Here goes:
1. When I refer to page number 10, in a source, I write “p. 10”. If I want to refer to pages 10-12, do I write “pp. 10-12”?
2. As above, but if referring to numbered paragraphs – what would be plural of “par.”?
3. How do I refer to “pages starting from”? For instance, the source starts discussing the subject on page 10. In my native language, I know how to express “10 and then some”, but not in English.
4. When cross-referencing in an English dictionary, do I use “q.v.”? For instance, under “HAT”, i mention “socks”. Socks has it’s own entry (“SOCKS”). Should I write: “Hat, as opposed to socks (q.v), is typically worn on the head.”
5. “Compare to”. Is there a neat way to express this? For instance, under HAT, I mention helmets, and that entry may be interesting for those reading the HAT entry. Example: “The hat is typically worn on the head. (Compare HELMET.)” What should I write instead of the cumbersome “Compare”?
Thanks for taking time!
PS. It is not an academic text, and unfortunately I’m not an academic, but I want to get it right nonetheless, for the benefit of those who read it, and not the least for my vanity.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/2 "2015-06-09T21:55:25Z")
All this depends on your style guide. Remind me what your Scandinavian language is (“and then some” makes me think it is similar usage to German “usw.”)?
1. Generally that is one method.
2. [¶ is sometimes used](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilcrow) for single paragraps, but I don’t know about dictionaries. Par. looks unusual.
3. I think that’s not wrong, but I feel like something else is more common?
4. [Confer, cf.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cf.) is one method from Latin.
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### Author:  [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/3 "2015-06-09T22:05:59Z")
For 4 & 5, I would use “see also”
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/4 "2015-06-09T22:09:50Z")
1. Yes, pp. is correct.
2. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a reference to multiple paragraphs. Using par. 10-14 should be sufficient.
3. You can just use 10+
4. q.v. is correct.
5. See is a possibility, but that usually implies additional information about the identical subject. Compare would be better for references that are similar, like helmet and hat.
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### Author:  [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/5 "2015-06-09T22:33:19Z")
Thank you very much for the replies. It’s quite late where I am right now, and will take another look tomorrow and contemplate and implement the information you provided. Let me just answer your questions and comment on your posts before I go to bed:
**thelurkinghorror** , My native language is Swedish; for “and then some” we use “ff”. “f” is one page, “ff” is “following pages”, though single “f” is almost never used. – I think “cf” is was I was thinking about, thanks!
**Reply** , “see also” works very well, thank you.
**Exapno Mapcase** , thank you for your succinct answers, very good.
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### Author:  [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/6 "2015-06-09T23:02:06Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#):
>
> I’m writing a sort of dictionary, with references and sources, in English. However, English is not my native language and even though I know the language fairly well, I’ve never written this kind of text and I’ve stumbled upon a few things regarding references that I’m not sure of. Here goes:
>
> 1. When I refer to page number 10, in a source, I write “p. 10”. If I want to refer to pages 10-12, do I write “pp. 10-12”?
>
> 2. As above, but if referring to numbered paragraphs – what would be plural of “par.”?
>
> 3. How do I refer to “pages starting from”? For instance, the source starts discussing the subject on page 10. In my native language, I know how to express “10 and then some”, but not in English.
>
> 4. When cross-referencing in an English dictionary, do I use “q.v.”? For instance, under “HAT”, i mention “socks”. Socks has it’s own entry (“SOCKS”). Should I write: “Hat, as opposed to socks (q.v), is typically worn on the head.”
>
> 5. “Compare to”. Is there a neat way to express this? For instance, under HAT, I mention helmets, and that entry may be interesting for those reading the HAT entry. Example: “The hat is typically worn on the head. (Compare HELMET.)” What should I write instead of the cumbersome “Compare”?
>
> Thanks for taking time!
>
> PS. It is not an academic text, and unfortunately I’m not an academic, but I want to get it right nonetheless, for the benefit of those who read it, and not the least for my vanity.
#3 - you can use pp.12 ff. to indicate page 12 and onwards.
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### Author:  [@LunarPlexus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LunarPlexus)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/7 "2015-06-09T23:06:16Z")
Pages in a range are typically separated with an en-dash, not a hyphen.
pp. 32–37
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### Author:  [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/8 "2015-06-10T00:00:30Z")
Regarding “see”, “see also”, and “q.v.”: You could use “see” for closely related terms and “see also” for more loosely related things, or use the same for both. I don’t think it matters that much; either indicates to the reader that there is a related topic they can look at.
As for “q.v.”, maybe I’m just poorly educated, but as a native English speaker with almost a college degree and some exposure to academic and formal writing, I had no idea what “q.v.” meant. I thought it was a special type of sock or something. If your target audience is superedumacated, go for it. If not, maybe something more modern would be appreciated for your… dumber… readers?
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### Author:  [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/9 "2015-06-10T00:04:03Z")
…and for the life of me, I still can’t think of a reason anyone would want to learn about hats while they’re reading about socks. Is it really a thing in other countries to say “hats are socks that you wear on your head”? 🙂
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/10 "2015-06-10T02:44:38Z")
> [@Reply](#):
>
> …and for the life of me, I still can’t think of a reason anyone would want to learn about hats while they’re reading about socks. Is it really a thing in other countries to say “hats are socks that you wear on your head”? 🙂
Hey, in German and Swedish gloves are “handsocks”; with so many languages in the world, there may be one that calls hats a “headsock”. It is after all a perfectly fine description for a frigian cap or similar.
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### Author:  [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/11 "2015-06-10T03:36:43Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> Hey, in German and Swedish gloves are “handsocks”; with so many languages in the world, there may be one that calls hats a “headsock”. It is after all a perfectly fine description for a frigian cap or similar.
Really? Awesome. Learn something new every day.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/12 "2015-06-10T04:23:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> 1. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a reference to multiple paragraphs. Using par. 10-14 should be sufficient.
In Canadian style manuals, “paras.” is used to indicate more than one paragraph: “paras. 10-14.”
> [@](#):
>
> 1. You can just use 10+
I’ve never seen a + sign used that way. I would say “10 et seq.”
Obviously in matters of style, YMMV. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/13 "2015-06-10T05:10:49Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> Hey, in German and Swedish gloves are “handsocks”; with so many languages in the world, there may be one that calls hats a “headsock”. It is after all a perfectly fine description for a frigian cap or similar.
Actually, that would be American English. A knit winter cap is sometimes known as a “stocking cap”.
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### Author:  [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/14 "2015-06-10T05:18:50Z")
“Handsocks” and the frigian cap (“Phrygian” cap seems to be the preferred spelling) are both new to me.
The “headsock” immediately brought to mind the “knit caps” I grew up with under the name “toques”. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knit_cap#Canadian_tuque): “The knit cap is also known in Canadian English: tuque (pronounced /ˈtuːk/; also spelled touque or toque in Canadian English), a word closely related to the French word toque, originally referring to a traditional headwear and now used for type of chef’s hat (short for toque blanche, meaning “white hat”)”.
(Highjack: Shortly after we met, **Zyada** thought of making me a toque (said with a long ‘oo’, like “food”) before visiting me in Vancouver. Luckily, she didn’t; she had never heard the word pronounced, and the customs people might not have been amused if she said she was bringing me a “toke”. See the very first line of [Wikipedia’s Disambiguation page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toque_%28disambiguation%29).)
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/15 "2015-06-10T05:46:49Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> Hey, in German and Swedish gloves are “handsocks”; with so many languages in the world, there may be one that calls hats a “headsock”. It is after all a perfectly fine description for a frigian cap or similar.
> [@Reply](#):
>
> Really? Awesome. Learn something new every day.
I mistyped, sorry: “hand_shoes_”, not socks.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/16 "2015-06-10T14:11:55Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> I’ve never seen a + sign used that way. I would say “10 et seq.”
>
> Obviously in matters of style, YMMV. 🙂
In the US \*et seq. \*is used (almost?) exclusively in legal sources.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/17 "2015-06-10T16:18:11Z")
I would second the use of ff. for forward in more formal documents.
As I said, I don’t remember seeing a plural for paragraphs. Paras. is not in the Chicago Manual of Style, but this topic does not seem to be covered there. Paras. seems perfectly logical to me, though, if you wanted to use it.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/18 "2015-06-10T18:59:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> In the US \*et seq. \*is used (almost?) exclusively in legal sources.
I did say “_I_ would say p. 10 et seq.”
😉
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/19 "2015-06-10T19:02:27Z")
Hey, for all I know you may be the editor of the _Canadian Oxford Dictionary_ on the side. 😉
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### Author:  [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-make-references-etcetera-in-english/722104/20 "2015-06-14T03:42:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Hey, for all I know you may be the editor of the _Canadian Oxford Dictionary_ on the side. 😉
No, but he can be considered a legal source :D.
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