# How to orchestrate a war in three easy steps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112 "2007-02-06T18:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/1 "2007-02-06T18:41:10Z")
1. [Refuse diplomatic overtures](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/18/AR2007011801273.html) a. Make sure you cover them up b. Demand those exact same things the other government was offering, then castigate them for not complying 2. [Instigate, instigate, instigate.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2006933,00.html) 3. PROFIT! I’m not sure what, exactly, is going on in that tiny little portion of our clueless leader’s brain that has not been killed off by cocaine or liquor, but our military resources are already stretched to the breaking point. What, exactly, is the justification for starting yet another war? The last one was a box office flop, we have to do better? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/2 "2007-02-06T18:47:19Z")
Well, we _know_ Iran has a nuclear weapons program… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/3 "2007-02-06T18:57:51Z")
So far, it doesn’t seem to be working. Which certainly makes sense, Iran has no reason to risk anything, all is going along swimmingly for them. We have gutted their sworn enemies in Afghanistan (the Taliban, like AlQ, is very anti-Shia), taken out Saddam and installed a pro-Iranian governance in his stead. What’s not to like? So far, Iran seems to be pretty much ignoring the provocations and sabre-rattling. Their fanatic is smarter than our fanatic. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/4 "2007-02-06T19:04:18Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] I’m not sure what, exactly, is going on in that tiny little portion of our clueless leader’s brain that has not been killed off by cocaine or liquor, but our military resources are already stretched to the breaking point. What, exactly, is the justification for starting yet another war? The last one was a box office flop, we have to do better? [/QUOTE] Flop? Perhaps you didn’t notice the outcome of the 2004 elections, but it was a solid victory! The problem with the 2006 election was that there wasn’t an easily-identifiable bad guy to rally us around our President! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/5 "2007-02-06T19:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So far, Iran seems to be pretty much ignoring the provocations and sabre-rattling. Their fanatic is smarter than our fanatic. [/QUOTE] Is it just me, or is it a bit scary that of the two leaders, the frothing racist who denies the Holocaust ever happened is the one that’s the more reasonable? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/6 "2007-02-06T19:25:40Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Is it just me, or is it a bit scary that of the two leaders, the frothing racist who denies the Holocaust ever happened is the one that’s the more reasonable? [/QUOTE] Is it just me or is it a bit scary that some people automatically assume that the Iranian government is acting in good faith but that the US government isn’t? I’m all for diplomatic discussions with Iran, but I don’t for a minute buy that they can be trusted. And this overture in the OP predates Ahmedinajad’s presidency by 2 years, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/7 "2007-02-06T19:31:04Z")
And yet, he’s not responding with anything but words to these intentional jabs. If he’s so unpredictable and untrustworthy, why poke him with a stick? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/8 "2007-02-06T19:41:30Z")
I don’t know, isn’t one of the tenets of _The Art of War_ “provoke your enemy when he is too weak to kill you”? Maybe Mr Bush picked up a copy after that speech he gave in the lieberry. I guess my point is if we’re going to poke a nutty guy with a stick, it’s better to do it when we know he can’t bomb the shit out of us or our allies. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/9 "2007-02-06T19:59:49Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] And yet, he’s not responding with anything but words to these intentional jabs. If he’s so unpredictable and untrustworthy, why poke him with a stick? [/QUOTE] Hmm… Diplomacy… that sounds crazy… but it _just might work!_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/10 "2007-02-06T20:12:53Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] ..I’m all for diplomatic discussions with Iran, but I don’t for a minute buy that they can be trusted… [/QUOTE] Can we? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/11 "2007-02-06T20:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] What, exactly, is the justification for starting yet another war? The last one was a box office flop, we have to do better? [/QUOTE] Your ‘box office flop’ idea might be on point. Bush had a string of hits with Afghanistan, the 2002 elections, and the Iraq invasion. But then they made “Iraq Occupation” and the franchise lost its way a little bit - that was kind of the “Batman and Robin.” Now they want to do a continuity reboot, set in Iran, that pretends everything they’ve done so far has been completely successful. I don’t know if he thinks they can really take on Iran with things the way they are, but it almost looks like he thinks they can keep going with the ‘democratize the Middle East’ plan as if it was working on schedule. That’s kind of scary. I don’t trust the Iranian government, but there’s nobody trustworthy involved here. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/12 "2007-02-06T20:43:43Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Is it just me or is it a bit scary that some people automatically assume that the Iranian government is acting in good faith but that the US government isn’t? [/QUOTE] Given the administration’s Iraq record, is there any reason to assume the opposite? After all, it was _Saddam_ who was telling the truth in the previous go 'round. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/13 "2007-02-06T20:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] Given the administration’s Iraq record, is there any reason to assume the opposite? After all, it was _Saddam_ who was telling the truth in the previous go 'round. [/QUOTE] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/14 "2007-02-06T20:47:49Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] And yet, he’s not responding with anything but words to these intentional jabs. If he’s so unpredictable and untrustworthy, why poke him with a stick? [/QUOTE] Because, maybe, right now our stick is sharper and bigger than his? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/15 "2007-02-06T20:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. [/QUOTE] Did it come from Niger? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/16 "2007-02-06T21:06:42Z")
[QUOTE=Ethilrist] Hmm… Diplomacy… that sounds crazy… but it _just might work!_ :eek: [/QUOTE] Any chance this could apply to Venezuela too, or is that just a back-up war (to be used in case the primary war planned for Iran gets derailed by Congress)? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/17 "2007-02-07T00:08:55Z")
But do we want North Korea to feel left out? Seems to me that we could easily piss off more than one hemispere–Bush just isn’t putting his back into it… Axis o’ Evil, Axis o’ Evil! It’s such a great soundbyte… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/18 "2007-02-07T00:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] The problem with the 2006 election was that there wasn’t an easily-identifiable bad guy to rally us around our President! -Joe [/QUOTE] Nope, in the 2006 election, the easily identifiable bad guy was our President. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/19 "2007-02-07T00:27:18Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] Nope, in the 2006 election, the easily identifiable bad guy was our President. [/QUOTE] S’true: [U.S. President Ranks as Top Villain of 2006](http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20061228005253&newsLang=en) > [@](#): > > A new poll from The Associated Press and AOL News has discovered that Americans are torn in terms of their perception of President\*\* George W. Bush\*\* and his performance in 2006. When asked to name the past year’s biggest villain, Bush was far and away the #1 choice, commanding **25%** of the vote, distantly trailed by Osama Bin Laden (8%), Saddam Hussein (6%), President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran (5%), North Korean leader Kim Jong II (2%) and Donald Rumsfeld (2%). Satan only took in 1% of the vote, as did Hugo Chavez, Tom Cruise, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Rosie O’Donnell, among others. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/20 "2007-02-07T00:47:14Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that’s the point, John. Given the politics of the situation what possible incentive does the Iranian government have for negotiating in good faith? 1. Things are going their way. 2. If they’re paying attention they know that the American public doesn’t have the political will for another invasion. 3. They also know that, while the US may well be able to bomb them, we don’t have the ability to knock them over without committing enough forces to lose control of Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Given those facts the proper thing to do is play for time and wait for our wheels to fall off. At that point they become the biggest player and an enormous influence over the entire region, possibly even larger than the Saudis or the Egyptians. If the US wants to apply some direct pressure an air wing with white ones on the rails isn’t going to do it. But a couple of guys with sniper rifles popping some higher ups in Tehran would bring the _personal_ risks of antagonizing the US home. We don’t really have the ability to kill the country or their government. We can, however, have a good shot at killing some of the leaders and thereby encouraging the others. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112.md?page=2)