# How to orchestrate a war in three easy steps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112 "2007-02-06T18:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/21 "2007-02-07T00:57:56Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] … But a couple of guys with sniper rifles popping some higher ups in Tehran would bring the _personal_ risks of antagonizing the US home… [/QUOTE] Assuming Chuck Norris isn’t available? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/22 "2007-02-07T01:05:34Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] We don’t really have the ability to kill the country or their government. We can, however, have a good shot at killing some of the leaders and thereby encouraging the others. [/QUOTE] We really do have the ability to turn the frakin country into a parking lot if we choose to do so. Barring nukes, we can still destroy the military and government, just as we did in Iraq. We’ve got a fuckwit in the White House, but we’ve still got a kickass military. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/23 "2007-02-07T01:09:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **elucidator** > Assuming Chuck Norris isn’t available? He’s busy fighting abortion [http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/07020208.html](http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/07020208.html) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/24 "2007-02-07T01:25:56Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. [/QUOTE] They may or may not be negotiating in good faith. That doesn’t mean, we shouldn’t be negotiating in good faith. We go into negotiations knowing Iran can’t be trusted. If we are good, we can use this to our advantage. Bush has killed the art of diplomacy in the US. What good is a kick ass military if we cannot broker the peace in our favor because we forgot how to do it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/25 "2007-02-07T01:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. [/QUOTE] We have ample evidence that they are not negotiating _at all_, since it takes two to negotiate, and we’ve ignored all their overtures. They can’t negotiate with us in _any_ sort of faith right now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/26 "2007-02-07T03:30:07Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] We really do have the ability to turn the frakin country into a parking lot if we choose to do so. Barring nukes, we can still destroy the military and government, just as we did in Iraq. We’ve got a fuckwit in the White House, but we’ve still got a kickass military. [/QUOTE] At present, no, Oak, the USA doesn’t have the ability to achieve that with conventional weapons. There simply aren’t the troops available. If you can find the divisions in the U.S. order of battle to pull that off - you’ll need MORE than what was used to invade Iraq - tell us what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/27 "2007-02-07T03:59:23Z")
Well, if all the US wanted to do was smash everything useful without even pretending to want to rebuild, reorganize or restore a thing (and assuming this didn’t spark the inevitable retaliatory attacks from elsewhere), there are probably the resources available to send B-52’s on continual conventional bombing runs. But of course, breaking stuff is easy. Breaking resolve is hard. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/28 "2007-02-07T04:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which has what to do with whether or not Iran is negotiating in good faith? We have ample evidence that they are not. [/QUOTE] Is there reason to assume the Americans are negotiating in good faith? Is there reason to assume the Americans are actually negotiating at all? Many outside observers would say America is just looking for an excuse, rather than negotiating. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/29 "2007-02-07T04:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] At present, no, Oak, the USA doesn’t have the ability to achieve that with conventional weapons. There simply aren’t the troops available. If you can find the divisions in the U.S. order of battle to pull that off - you’ll need MORE than what was used to invade Iraq - tell us what they are. [/QUOTE] It ain’t like it took every available man to invade Iraq. If we want to do it, we can. Might have to call up lots of guards and reserves, and that would piss lots of people off, but we can do it. Iran is not China. They’re a 4th rate pissant military, maybe a step or two ahead of what Iran had back in 91. We’d control the air, and have superior recon/command/control. According to Global Firepower the U.S. has about 1.4 million active frontline personel: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=1](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=1) Iran has about 420K: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=25](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=25) From the same links, we spend about 518 Billion on our military per year. They spend about 4 billion. We have 18K aircraft, and almost 30K armor. They have less than 1k aircraft, and almost 2400 armor. Our stuff is kickass. Their stuff not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/30 "2007-02-07T05:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] It ain’t like it took every available man to invade Iraq. If we want to do it, we can. Might have to call up lots of guards and reserves, and that would piss lots of people off, but we can do it. Iran is not China. They’re a 4th rate pissant military, maybe a step or two ahead of what Iran had back in 91. We’d control the air, and have superior recon/command/control. According to Global Firepower the U.S. has about 1.4 million active frontline personel: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=1](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=1) Iran has about 420K: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=25](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=25) From the same links, we spend about 518 Billion on our military per year. They spend about 4 billion. We have 18K aircraft, and almost 30K armor. They have less than 1k aircraft, and almost 2400 armor. Our stuff is kickass. Their stuff not so much. [/QUOTE] Haven’t you learned anything from our experiences in Iraq and Vietnam? Winning the war isn’t hard. It’s what comes after that that’s hard. By the way, if you think that we can do Iran right now you’re living in Fantasyland. There’s no way, not without a draft. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/31 "2007-02-07T05:09:19Z")
Dude, I don’t think we should have invaded Iraq this time. Damn sure don’t think we should invade yet another country. That aint the point I’m arguing. All I’m saying is we can do it. Without a draft. Right now, I think we’d have a tough time with China, Russia, India, or even North Korea, but Iran is just not at that level. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/32 "2007-02-07T06:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > killed off by cocaine or liquor First rule of making yourself look silly is to post that, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/33 "2007-02-07T06:49:05Z")
How to orchestrate a war in 3 easy steps: 1. invade global underwear drawer 2. ??? 3. profit! It’s just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/34 "2007-02-07T10:30:01Z")
You know, I thought I was a bit squirrelly when it first occured to me that Shrub wanted to go to war with Iran, then it turned out to be the topic on an NPR program the other day. While it’s a relief to find out that I’m going _crazier_, I’m **not** thrilled at _why_. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/35 "2007-02-07T13:33:43Z")
Didn’t NPR broadcast last night that Shrub was gearing up for more Murder & Mayhem in Mogadishu? **"Black Hawk Down 2: Down All You Want, We’ll Make More"** ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/36 "2007-02-07T14:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] It ain’t like it took every available man to invade Iraq. If we want to do it, we can. Might have to call up lots of guards and reserves, and that would piss lots of people off, but we can do it. Iran is not China. They’re a 4th rate pissant military, maybe a step or two ahead of what Iran had back in 91. We’d control the air, and have superior recon/command/control. According to Global Firepower the U.S. has about 1.4 million active frontline personel: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=1](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=1) Iran has about 420K: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=25](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=25) From the same links, we spend about 518 Billion on our military per year. They spend about 4 billion. We have 18K aircraft, and almost 30K armor. They have less than 1k aircraft, and almost 2400 armor. Our stuff is kickass. Their stuff not so much. [/QUOTE] How do our numbers compare to the resistance we’re currently facing in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/37 "2007-02-07T15:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] We really do have the ability to turn the frakin country into a parking lot if we choose to do so. Barring nukes, we can still destroy the military and government, just as we did in Iraq. We’ve got a fuckwit in the White House, but we’ve still got a kickass military. [/QUOTE] Hubris thy name is **Oakminster.** Short of using nukes, your military is hardly in a position to kick much “ass.” Much less Iran’s, a country three times the size and population of Iraq, where you “kickass” military is deeply and hopelssly mired by a crude insurgency movement using lowly K-47s and low-tech explosive devices. You have _no idea_, and I repeat, no idea, what kind of damage the Iranian arsenal (boosted by state of the art Russian anti-aircraft defenses, Ukranian bought Sunburn anti-ship missiles, Chinese mines and plenty of their own home-made rockets ) could do if you unleash a bombing campaign against them. From shutting down the Straits of Hormutz, to sinking an aircraft carrier to pulverizing the Green Zone, retaliating against Quatar’s US headquarters, …to all sorts of worldwide attacks against Americans and American interests. Up to and including unleashing Hezbollah’s fury unto Israel. Quite a messy affair for all sides involved I’m afraid. And those sides might end up including Russia and/or China and/or Pakistan. All nuclear states I need not remind you. They lack neither the will, the personal (quite the contrary, ill-will vs the US has steadily risen since the unprovoked Iraq invasion, it would only sky-rocket in case of similar antics with Iran) nor the equipment to inflict quite a bit of damage to your already stretched-to-the-breaking-point Armed Forces. Be proud all you want, but put down the Kool-Aid. The US is in no position to unleash even a conventional air-campaign against Iran. The consequences would simply be too dire to risk. Even if you Dear Misleader tries to make you think otherwise. A little dose of humbleness never hurt anyone…unbridled hubris like yours, OTOH… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/38 "2007-02-07T15:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Haven’t you learned anything from our experiences in Iraq and Vietnam? Winning the war isn’t hard. It’s what comes after that that’s hard. By the way, if you think that we can do Iran right now you’re living in Fantasyland. There’s no way, not without a draft. [/QUOTE] TY. And this comes from an insider, **Oakminster**. You’d do well to read it twice…at least. Reason: sp. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/39 "2007-02-07T16:02:45Z")
\How do you get the “reason for edit” past the “Last edited” bit?\ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/40 "2007-02-07T16:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] It ain’t like it took every available man to invade Iraq. If we want to do it, we can. Might have to call up lots of guards and reserves, and that would piss lots of people off, but we can do it. Iran is not China. They’re a 4th rate pissant military, maybe a step or two ahead of what Iran had back in 91. We’d control the air, and have superior recon/command/control. According to Global Firepower the U.S. has about 1.4 million active frontline personel: [http://www.globalfirepower.com/country\_detail.asp?country\_id=1](http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=1) Iran has about 420K: [/QUOTE] You’re throwing around numbers that simply don’t mean what you think they mean. First of all, the United States does not have 1.4 million “Frontline personnel.” The United States might have 1.4 million active duty troops, which includes admin personnel and includes the Navy and Air Force. And Iran doesn’t have hundreds of thousands of soldiers already committed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, et al. The United States has ten regular Army divisions and three Marine divisions, plus some reserve capability. That is it; that’s what’s available to you. The occupation of Iraq takes four divisions, IIRC; Afghanistan occupies the strength of at least one. The country needs to keep some in reserve just in case, and they can’t all be battle ready at once, so a few must be in refit/training at any given time. You do not have 1.4 million people to attack Iran with. You don’t have half that many; you don’t have HALF of half of that many. You tell me where the divisions are to invade Iran. Don’t cite numbers like “we spend a lot more on our military!” (well, yeah, of course; what is an American soldier paid versus an Iranian soldier?) Remember, you’re going up against an enemy that’s actually going to fight back, unlike Iraq. Tell us what divisions/brigades you’re going to use to invade Iran. Be specific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112.md?page=3)