# How to orchestrate a war in three easy steps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112 "2007-02-06T18:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/61 "2007-02-07T21:45:23Z")
Since I admitted my error and gracefully exited the thread, I should just leave this, but I did realize why I missed the joke in the first place. There is an error with your statement, **wring**. The sticker was small due to the lack of the _ **Big Ass** _. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/62 "2007-02-07T21:53:17Z")
[QUOTE=RogueRacer] Since I admitted my error and gracefully exited the thread, I should just leave this, but I did realize why I missed the joke in the first place. There is an error with your statement, **wring**. The sticker was small due to the lack of the _ **Big Ass** _. 😃 [/QUOTE] I’d argue back that the international “no” symbol was merely a placeholder for the _ **big ass** _ in question. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/63 "2007-02-07T22:00:35Z")
😃 nicely put. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/64 "2007-02-07T22:40:10Z")
[QUOTE=Dumbguy] My dad can beat up your dad. [/QUOTE] Good. I’m glad. 'cause the other dad’s son sounds like a supremacist a-hole. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/65 "2007-02-07T23:31:25Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] You have _no idea_, and I repeat, no idea, what kind of damage the Iranian arsenal (boosted by state of the art Russian anti-aircraft defenses, Ukranian bought Sunburn anti-ship missiles, Chinese mines and plenty of their own home-made rockets ) could do if you unleash a bombing campaign against them. [/QUOTE] Um…actually, yes, I do. I’m ex-military too. Was involved in weapons testing, but really don’t need to get much more specific than that. Suffice it to say I have a pretty good idea about what our weapons sytems could do as recently as the first invasion of Iraq, and what countermeasures were available. Most of the stuff I worked on has been upgraded considerably since then. I think you’re seriously over-estimating Iran’s strength, and seriously underestimating our capability. The biggest advantage we have is the ability to control the airspace. We fly/bomb at will. They don’t fly enough to matter after the early days of combat. To stop an invasion, Iran has to mass troops. You can’t really hide massed troops from our recon–so we know where they are, and soften them up considerably before the first troops invade. The peacenik crowd here seems to be building Iran up into some unbeatable monster. They aren’t all that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/66 "2007-02-08T00:37:53Z")
“Peacenik”? What are you, old? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/67 "2007-02-08T01:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] “Peacenik”? What are you, old? [/QUOTE] Old, burned out, cynical, disillusioned, unrequited, curmudgeonly, with few if any known redeeming qualities. Damn tired of tilting at windmills and getting knocked flat on my ass. Also recently got accused of being The Antichrist. Only defense that came to mind was that if I was, that person would be dead. But that’s sorta beside the point… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/68 "2007-02-08T01:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] The biggest advantage we have is the ability to control the airspace. [/QUOTE] That hasn’t been going so well in Iraq lately, has it? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/69 "2007-02-08T01:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] That hasn’t been going so well in Iraq lately, has it? [/QUOTE] Worked damn well when they still had a military. A civillian insurgency is a very different ball game. Note that all I’ve said is that we can destroy the Iranian military and topple the government. Just like in Iraq, that’s the relatively easy part. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/70 "2007-02-08T02:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] That hasn’t been going so well in Iraq lately, has it? [/QUOTE] Well, Iraq doesn’t have a functioning military any more, and that, I think, is the point **Oakminster** is trying to make: that the U.S. military **could** eradicate the Iranian military. Not **should** , **could**. Yes, it would be a lunatic course to take. Yes, it would probably result in every other nuclear nation on the planet banding together to take us out, just on account of us being too dangerous to have around. **Oakminster** ’s claims about U. S. military capacity do not address those issues. Just take them for what they are, and we can get back to discussing whatever fuckwitted thing the Bush administration is up to today. Damn slow server. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/71 "2007-02-08T02:09:58Z")
_Oderint dum mentuant._ Let them hate us so long as they fear us. Swell. Peachy. Anybody here ever read any Barbara Tuchman? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/72 "2007-02-08T03:16:23Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Well, Iraq doesn’t have a functioning military any more, and that, I think, is the point **Oakminster** is trying to make: that the U.S. military **could** eradicate the Iranian military. Not **should** , **could**. Yes, it would be a lunatic course to take. Yes, it would probably result in every other nuclear nation on the planet banding together to take us out, just on account of us being too dangerous to have around. **Oakminster** ’s claims about U. S. military capacity do not address those issues. Just take them for what they are, and we can get back to discussing whatever fuckwitted thing the Bush administration is up to today. Damn slow server. [/QUOTE] Yep, I getcha. It just struck me as funny/odd, funny/humorous (well, not really when you think about it) that The Most Advanced Military Apparatus In The World[sup]TM[/sup] could be getting its metaphorical ass handed to it\* by a scruffy bunch of guys shooting off AK-47s. - Hyperbole. Not to be taken literally. Void where prohibitive. All wrongs reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/73 "2007-02-08T03:25:41Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Yep, I getcha. It just struck me as funny/odd, funny/humorous (well, not really when you think about it) that The Most Advanced Military Apparatus In The World[sup]TM[/sup] could be getting its metaphorical ass handed to it\* by a scruffy bunch of guys shooting off AK-47s. [/QUOTE] It’s already happened. There’s a wall in Washington proving it. Very famous. Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/74 "2007-02-08T03:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It’s already happened. There’s a wall in Washington proving it. Very famous. Trust me. [/QUOTE] True that. And yet our current leaders seem not to have learned that lesson. Maybe because so many of them had other priorities than risking their precious selves in Nam. Really, you have to wonder, are the people running this clusterfuck completely oblivious to history? Do they think the lessons of the past don’t apply to them? Are they so belinded by the glittery high-tech toys in our arsenal that they can’t see the gritty reality on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/75 "2007-02-08T03:36:11Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Really, you have to wonder, are the people running this clusterfuck completely oblivious to history? Do they think the lessons of the past don’t apply to them? [/QUOTE] The lesson of 9/11 prolly pushed the lesson of Vietnam right out of their heads. There’s _not_ all that much space up there, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/76 "2007-02-08T03:56:40Z")
The situation in Iraq is not a military failure. It’s a policy failure. Not the military’s fault the CIC has his head up his ass and never shoulda sent them there in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/77 "2007-02-08T04:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Well, Iraq doesn’t have a functioning military any more, and that, I think, is the point **Oakminster** is trying to make: that the U.S. military **could** eradicate the Iranian military. [/quote] > [@](#): > > Not should, could. Yes, it would be a lunatic course to take. Yes, it would probably result in every other nuclear nation on the planet banding together to take us out, just on account of us being too dangerous to have around. Oakminster’s claims about U. S. military capacity do not address those issues. Just take them for what they are, and we can get back to discussing whatever fuckwitted thing the Bush administration is up to today Not should, could. Yes, it would be a lunatic course to take. Yes, it would probably result in every other nuclear nation on the planet banding together to take us out, just on account of us being too dangerous to have around. **Oakminster’s** claims about U. S. military capacity do not address those issues. Just take them for what they are, and we can get back to discussing whatever fuckwitted thing the Bush administration is up to today [quote] Thank you, you’ve summoned my arguments pretty concisely. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that just Kool-drinkers will buy this. Opening yet another fruitless/undesering front, with its own weapons capabilities and nuclear allies, is simply insane at present time. And not expecting Russia and/or China to get involved somehow (weapons, advisory, training) is a whole new ball of wax. And again, **Oaikmister** , I predict this is the parting shot to WW-III, if it ere to happen. Hard as it might, for you to believe **no one** wins when a planet is left with a few cockroaches and even less human beings. Seriously, try to show a nuclear delivery system in the USofA that is immune to foreign retaliation and why the hell they wouldn’t have resources to attack it/them–let’s get realistic and forget “Star Wares” for the moment. Think it over. Sure, as **'luc** said,m you could you inflict all sorts of damage but beyond the 'nam failed experiment, what’s the point of the whole Iraq (and perhaps,Iran) misadventure: We’re willing to butcher anyone who “doesn’t stand with us in lockstep.” Ain’t gonna happen. Your current and heavily financed empire wil go down first. Whether the next one – China, India or the EU – again depends an how much they’ve learned from history and how willing they are to buck the trend. Old enough not care much. But kid’s future sure does worry me. One thing I’ve promised him is that he won’t become cannon-fodder. Not for delusional ideology anyway – be it far right or left. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/78 "2007-02-08T04:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] And again, **Oaikmister** , I predict this is the parting shot to WW-III, if it ere to happen. Hard as it might, for you to believe **no one** wins when a planet is left with a few cockroaches and even less human beings. [/QUOTE] Dude, you can stop lumping me in with the people that want to invade any old time now. I’ve made my point, and it was summarized neatly by **kaylasdad99**. Oakie: We could do it, but it would be a bad idea. Redfury: We can’t do it, but it would be a bad idea. I grok the bad idea thing. Really and truly. If the Fuckwit in Chief decides to invade, that long haired dude next to you at the peace rally may well be me…and I’ve never participated a political protest event. I do know most of the words to lots of sixties songs, ya know… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/79 "2007-02-08T08:48:18Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] True that. And yet our current leaders seem not to have learned that lesson. Maybe because so many of them had other priorities than risking their precious selves in Nam. Really, you have to wonder, are the people running this clusterfuck completely oblivious to history? Do they think the lessons of the past don’t apply to them? Are they so belinded by the glittery high-tech toys in our arsenal that they can’t see the gritty reality on the ground? [/QUOTE] I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the answer to all your questions is drumroll: YES!!! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112/80 "2007-02-08T16:34:15Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] True that. And yet our current leaders seem not to have learned that lesson. Maybe because so many of them had other priorities than risking their precious selves in Nam. Really, you have to wonder, are the people running this clusterfuck completely oblivious to history? Do they think the lessons of the past don’t apply to them? Are they so belinded by the glittery high-tech toys in our arsenal that they can’t see the gritty reality on the ground? [/QUOTE] That’s been my point all along in this thread. As you can see, yes, even some people right here in this thread are “so blinded by the glittery high-tech toys” that they believe anything’s possible with their usage. And that despite what is actually happening on the ground – reality, you know what they say about it. BTW, the air campaign in Iraq hasn’t stopped at all. In fact it has actually _increased_. To what end other than killing mostly innocent civilians, who knows: [This aerial onslaught is war at its most stupid](http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2007237,00.html) > [@](#): > > The images of US ‘friendly fire’ show how good bombers are at hurting, but how bad they are at winning [The Pentagon’s Secret Air War in Iraq](http://www.antiwar.com/engelhardt/?articleid=10485) > [@](#): > > I then pointed out that just last month, in National Defense Magazine, Col. Robert A. Fitzgerald, the Marine Corps’ head of aviation plans and policy, was quoted as saying that, in 2006, “Marine rotary-wing aircraft flew more than 60,000 combat flight hours, and fixed-wing platforms completed 31,000. They dropped 80 tons of bombs and fired 80 missiles, 3,532 rockets and more than 2 million rounds of smaller ammunition.” So much for “winning from the air.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-orchestrate-a-war-in-three-easy-steps/391112.md?page=5)