# How to prevent this election nonsense from happening again **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 4, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791 "2020-11-04T22:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/61 "2020-11-05T18:13:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > All I can say is that as a software engineer… And as a fellow software engineer, I will say I completely understand. But also, I would think it a challenge worth considering, given the benefits. Could take years, or who knows how long, though. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/62 "2020-11-05T18:18:41Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Vote counting has to happen in public for very good reasons. You can’t keep the process secret. There are observers from both parties present, and there’s nothing to stop the observers from reporting the counts they witnessed. Trying to limit the flow of official information would not solve the problem of media speculation, it would just make it less accurate. I will go back to my first post then. The data will get out because vote counting is a public process. If the state officials don’t release it, then the poll workers will, it’ll just be less accurate. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/63 "2020-11-05T18:20:16Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > then the poll workers will I was under the impression that poll workers tend to hold themselves to stricter standards of propriety and secrecy, but I could be wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/64 "2020-11-05T18:22:05Z")
You might be right in general, but right now there are few incentives for them to release info because the local precinct releases the totals as soon as they’re verified. If they were holding them for a few days, the info would leak out for sure. It’s easy to be professional and discrete when you don’t have any secrets to keep. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/65 "2020-11-05T18:30:16Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I have a sneaking suspicion that we may find out about some hacking or other manipulation of the voting systems before it’s all said and done. It would explain the wild departure from polls and the nonsensical shifts in demographic breakouts. With that in mind, we need to pass some laws that harden the election mechanics. I don’t like the idea of having a uniform, federalized voting method but I do think that we need to establish a few baseline security laws that every system must meet in order to be certified as legal. You and I think exactly alike on this. One of the strengths of our system that makes it resistant to hacking fuckery is how diverse each county is in their approach. Yes, have some federal standards as you have suggested – and I heartily endorse each and every one – but leave the actual handling of elections to individual counties. It makes it really hard for anyone to mess with enough votes across the country to change the outcome of an election. /// And as a hard core liberal, I also would never trust online voting. Online tracking, sure. But I’m quite fond of paper ballots for actual voting. The one _I_ filled out – not the receipt that gets spit out by some electronic voting machine. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/66 "2020-11-05T19:09:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I encourage you to read this page of myths about the [Interstate Compact](https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/section_9.11). It may assuage some of your doubts. For example, the compact comprises a legally-binding contract between states with specific rules and timelines for withdrawals; a state law that violates this contract by withdrawing in a fashion forbidden by the contract would be unconstitutional. But I encourage you to read it yourself. Since Constitutional scholar debate whether or not the compact is Constitutional in the first place, and that is a totally biased worthless cite, I choose to disbelieve. Read your original cite. And again, what is to stop them? If they withdraw and say “ha ha” we have to depend upon a heavily GOP court. This is a crappy idea. All it will do is cause chaos if it ever gets into place. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/67 "2020-11-05T19:11:00Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > How about a new tradition where states are called by duly appointed state official on the basis of every single last vote being counted? In what ways would that be worse than the current system? When the vote is 100,000 in favor of candidate A, and there are 10,000 votes left to count, it’s over. That is called “math”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/68 "2020-11-05T19:13:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Delays in vote counting, behind closed doors, with the vote not being announced for days, is a standard tactic in pseudo-democracies. > > Having party scrutineers and the media present through the vote-counting process is one of the best guarantees of honesty in the vote-count. “Behind closed doors”- what a interesting phrase. So you want the doors to be open, so that members of the public- like a armed militia- can just wander in? That is a really bad idea. _Party scrutineers are already present_ , have been for ages. The have watchers from the Dems the GOP and independents. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/69 "2020-11-05T19:18:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I choose to disbelieve. You do you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/70 "2020-11-05T19:28:53Z")
Which is it?_Any ballot returned by mail will be accepted and counted if postmarked by Election Day and received by Election Day + 5._ or “Results around 8:00 p.m. on election night…”? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/71 "2020-11-05T20:01:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is it? _Any ballot returned by mail will be accepted and counted if postmarked by Election Day and received by Election Day + 5._ or “Results around 8:00 p.m. on election night…”? As I said, “Results around 8:00 p.m. on election night, _ **unless real close and we have to wait for the final mail to arrive.** _” ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/72 "2020-11-05T20:12:39Z")
I’m not sure what problems the OP is trying to solve. It appears that the election is functioning very smoothly; there are no credible reports of any significant vote fraud. Trump is filing a bunch of bullshit lawsuits, but thus far the courts appear to be shooting them all down, as they should. And we’ll probably get results within two or three days of the election. Where exactly is the nonsense here? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/73 "2020-11-05T20:18:33Z")
It usually takes about two weeks for States to announce their final vote counts, because they carefully check their work multiple times. Some people seem to think two DAYS is an unreasonable amount of time to wait, people aren’t going to wait two weeks. And it’s completely unnecessary, because unless the election is extraordinarily close, it’s obvious who won long before the official results are certified. Election officials really want to get everything right and will take weeks to determine whether Biden won their state by 450,000 or 450,100 votes. There’s no reason for the rest of us to care. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/74 "2020-11-05T20:21:56Z")
I would agree that once the sum of remaining uncounted votes is _incapable_ of causing an upset (as in, there literally aren’t enough left to flip it), perhaps with a small margin of error, then at that point it is certainly proper to make an announcement regarding the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/75 "2020-11-05T20:24:50Z")
Why in the world would a State want to not report its vote totals, Interstate Compact or not? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/76 "2020-11-05T20:30:29Z")
Yes, that is exactly how it works. Election results are certified by state officials once every vote has been counted. Since we don’t want to wait weeks for them to do that, we look at the unofficial first-pass vote counts, which almost always vary from the eventual final results by only a tiny fraction of a percentage point. The media “calling” the election has no legal force. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/77 "2020-11-05T20:38:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Behind closed doors”- what a interesting phrase. So you want the doors to be open, so that members of the public- like a armed militia- can just wander in? That is a really bad idea. > > _Party scrutineers are already present_ , have been for ages. The have watchers from the Dems the GOP and independents. I think you guys are in agreement here, you’re just parsing phrases slightly differently. The only way to _prevent_ the current count from being publicly known before the count is finalized (which seems to be the thing that the some posters here want to have happen), you’d have to have the vote count happen in secret. ie, behind closed doors, without proper observers. The alternative to that is not wide open doors that let anyone come in and disrupt the process, it’s _our current process_, where the count happens with plenty of oversight and also some doors that are, yes, literally closed (but not what was meant by “behind closed doors”), to provide sufficient physical security that the counters can do so without disruption. I think the response to people freaking out about this should be: the current system actually works very well, and if it makes you nervous to see close votes as they are counted, don’t watch the news every second! All the nonsense that’s going on as the vote is counted can be ignored because it’s not going to amount to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/78 "2020-11-05T20:44:43Z")
This isn’t an argument against the Interstate Compact. States have the right to choose how they will allocate their Electoral votes. Currently, all choose to hold an election and give their EC votes to the winner, but they don’t HAVE to. State Legislatures could just decide for themselves, and in early American history most of them did. The Constitution isn’t clear, though, on whether State governments can put one method of awarding EC votes into place and then change it _retroactively_ if that method doesn’t produce their desired results. No State has ever tried to do this, so no court has ever had to rule on the question. This could be the year; a few States that Biden is (apparently) carrying have Republican governments, and if any political party would ever have the nerve to try such a blatantly undemocratic power grab, this would be the one. But none of this has anything to do with the Interstate Compact. If States could decide not to abide by the Compact once the election is over, then they could decide not to abide by the election results, either. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/79 "2020-11-05T20:51:42Z")
Why would poll workers hold themselves to standards of secrecy? The information they’re gathering isn’t supposed to be secret. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/80 "2020-11-05T20:53:35Z")
Well, I suspect that pretty much any sweeping change proposed in this thread would be implemented as an official policy/legal change, if implemented at all. If this happened the poll workers would presumably find themselves operating under different rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791.md?page=5)