# How to prevent this election nonsense from happening again **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 4, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791 "2020-11-04T22:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/161 "2020-11-14T21:14:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s an interesting distinction. I’m not sure what causes it, but I wonder if it’s because of the combination of primaries and extensive elections to all sorts of offices in the US? Since I spent my first 31 years in the US and the last 52 in Canada I can speak to this. Having all sorts of offices be elective seems to be a peculair feature of American history and it is not good. When I voted in the US, I just pulled the D lever, thus voting for all sorts of people not having the foggiest notion of who they were or what, if anything, they stood for. Voting for judges is especially insane, since judges get judged by their conviction rates, leading to all sorts of malicious actions on their part. When primaries came along, I thought, oh good, better democracy. What I didn’t envision was how this would lead to the most extreme factions since they were the most highly motivated to vote. Especially without preference voting, there might just be too many people in the moderate lane, resulting in none having a chance. And in states in which anyone can vote in either primary, it also encourages ratf\*\*king (voting for the weaker candidate in the other party’s primary). The whole system is badly broken and there is no good path to fix it. It may have reached a bad Nash equilibrium, as LSLGuy thinks. In Canada, there are only four things to vote for (federal, provincial, local, and school board) and you mostly vote for just one office (except local where you choose mayor and Councillor) each time. It is simple, easy to administer and easy to count. I cannot recall a serious dispute. And the federal elections are run entirely by the federal government, the provincials by the provinces, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/162 "2020-11-15T01:05:36Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > take a look at the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election for even more mystifying great times in US democracy. Let me explain that bizarre incident. In the 2018 Governor election, Republican candidate Brian Kemp was the incumbent Secretary of State and therefore the Chair of the Election Commission. That certainly gives the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/163 "2020-11-15T01:07:10Z")
There is something deeply wrong with this country: > **[Analysis | More than 8 in 10 Trump voters think Biden’s win is not legitimate](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/more-than-8-in-10-trump-voters-think-bidens-win-is-not-legitimate/)** > > Trump’s efforts to undermine the system are influencing his base. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/164 "2020-11-15T01:16:29Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Having all sorts of offices be elective seems to be a peculair feature of American history and it is not good. When I voted in the US, I just pulled the D lever, thus voting for all sorts of people not having the foggiest notion of who they were or what, if anything, they stood for. Voting for judges is especially insane, since judges get judged by their conviction rates, leading to all sorts of malicious actions on their part. Democracy is _always_ better than the other way. No, it is DA’s who are rated on their conviction rate, not judges. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/165 "2020-11-15T01:17:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There is something deeply wrong with this country: And his name is trump. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/166 "2020-11-15T01:19:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And his name is trump. He’s certainly the end result but I am thinking of the underlying causes. So many people have just decided to ignore reality and substitute their own facts when they feel like it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/167 "2020-11-15T01:30:19Z")
Listening to only one side in the media. ONLY Faux news, ONLY Conservation conspiracy crazy talk radio, ONLY whatever… You lose the ability to htink rationally. I know this as I had a quite liberal buddy, who also happened to be a bit of a gun nut. Not a big gun nut, with a arsenal, but Cowboy Action Shooting, one AR15, etc. His friend turned him on to a local conservative talk show host who brought my buddy on as a guest speaker about the IRS. Then back about guns. He started to listen to that radio show religiously, and then turned to _(of course)_ Rush… and more. They he became a assistant host once a week. Last time I saw him post on FB he called Obama “the Muslim in Chief”. Not as a joke. It took about five years to go from liberal cynic to hard-core rabid true believer. Brainwashed. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/168 "2020-11-15T03:23:02Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > That certainly gives the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest. Appearance??? Appearance!!! That is an unambiguous, incontrovertible, incontestable conflict of interests. Perhaps you could give an example of what you think is an ACTUAL conflict of interest? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/169 "2020-11-15T03:28:48Z")
I did comment that Commonwealth posters have a different view on this issue than USian posters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/170 "2020-11-15T03:31:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Except, the Acting Secretary of Homeland Security, Chad Wolf, apparently found the remnants of a spine, somewhere or other, and refused to fire Krebs. Hmm. Rather than finding a bit of spine, Wolf may have been waiting for an upcoming court ruling on whether he is properly in office and actually has the legal authority to file the Krebs guy. And a decision which just came out today indicates that he likely doesn’t, as he’s not properly in office as an “Acting Secretary”: > **[Judge: DHS head didn't have authority to suspend DACA](https://apnews.com/general-news-6da7a068fd66722136fc1fd5eb82098b)** > > A federal judge in New York has ruled that Acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf assumed his position unlawfully. U.S. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/171 "2020-11-15T11:12:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, it is DA’s who are rated on their conviction rate, not judges. Depends on where in the country you live. In some areas, judges campaign on the “I’m tougher on crime than my opponent!” theme. I’ve lived there. Yes, it’s scary. But very popular / effective where it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/172 "2020-11-15T17:47:47Z")
I’ve watched that happen to nearly everyone in my life. My family, my friends. I don’t know how it gets ahold of them, but once it does, it becomes reinforcing, and they get dragged further and further down that hole. People I used to be able to have casual conversations with about local politics are now rabid and uncompromising. It takes over all of their life. When I used to be able to talk to them about local activities, sports, cooking, whatever, it is pretty rare that they don’t want to push their beliefs on me. To tell me the latest and greatest from the Republicans, and the latest and worstest of the Democrats. I was having a conversation with a client about our local high school team going to state championships. It was pleasant, but then he said, “And while they are up in Columbus, they should give DeWine a piece of their mind!” and then started ranting about how terrible Governor DeWine (a Republican) was for his handling of the pandemic. Which, IMHO, was the best out of Republican governors. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/173 "2020-11-15T17:48:35Z")
We have that a little. I never vote for that guy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/174 "2020-11-15T19:42:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’ve watched that happen to nearly everyone in my life. My family, my friends. > > I don’t know how it gets ahold of them, but once it does, it becomes reinforcing, and they get dragged further and further down that hole. > > People I used to be able to have casual conversations with about local politics are now rabid and uncompromising. > > It takes over all of their life. When I used to be able to talk to them about local activities, sports, cooking, whatever, it is pretty rare that they don’t want to push their beliefs on me. To tell me the latest and greatest from the Republicans, and the latest and worstest of the Democrats. I know, the voluntary brainwashing is scary as hell. And this is why we have MAGA hat wearers. And why more racists now. They are being brainwashed into being racists, their latent subconscious _fear of the different_ (we all have that) is being turned into xenophobia and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/175 "2020-11-15T20:23:27Z")
Actually the election process is working very well. The only objections are from the loser in the White House. The electoral college is not to blame for Trump. The problem is with whatever process allowed a moron to become a Presidential candidate. Is there a way to ensure that candidates are qualified? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/176 "2020-11-15T20:29:26Z")
The only qualifications are in the constitution. Natural born citizen over 35. Everything else is left to the voters. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/177 "2020-11-15T21:36:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’m not sure what causes it Well, the Commonwealth posters (an interesting and useful distinction) of course have a prime example of a non-partisan figure at the centre of their political system ie their Head of State. The Irish (whom for purposes of this argument are among the Commonwealth) are even clever enough to elect a non-partisan Head of State. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > _Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?_ As articulated by James Mills [“The people themselves.”](https://oll.libertyfund.org/quotes/495). ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/178 "2020-11-16T01:17:48Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > That certainly gives the APPEARANCE of a conflict of interest. > [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Appearance??? Appearance!!! > That is an unambiguous, incontrovertible, incontestable conflict of interests. > > Perhaps you could give an example of what you think is an ACTUAL conflict of interest? Take your pick: •I was being sarcastic. •Understatement •I thought it was obvious that it was actually a conflict of interest. •I forgot to include an appropriate emoji. •Lack of sleep ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/179 "2020-11-16T01:45:19Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In Canada, there are only four things to vote for (federal, provincial, local, and school board) and you mostly vote for just one office (except local where you choose mayor and Councillor) each time. It is simple, easy to administer and easy to count. I cannot recall a serious dispute. And the federal elections are run entirely by the federal government, the provincials by the provinces, etc. Especially the fact that the elections are all held at different times. There’s never an overlap between federal and provincial elections, given the flexibility of the parliamentary cycle. That keeps the voting process very simple. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791/180 "2020-11-16T10:35:31Z")
> Well, the Commonwealth posters (an interesting and useful distinction) of course have a prime example of a non-partisan figure at the centre of their political system ie their Head of State. > The Irish (whom for purposes of this argument are among the Commonwealth) are even clever enough to elect a non-partisan Head of State. But one could point to the French Third and Fourth Republics as examples where an elected non-partisan head of _state_ didn’t ipso facto diminish extreme divides/culture wars about the concept of the state that led to political dysfunction in the formation and sustainability of _governments_. Likewise, having a non-elected and ceremonial head of state doesn’t prevent the same sorts of divide developing in the political system here in the UK. We don’t have the principle of universal healthcare, gun control, or abortion, as touchpaper partisan issues, but the same sorts of underlying issues are there: economic decline in towns (as opposed to metropolitan areas), feeling ignored/patronised by remote/elitist central government, resentment of immigration/ethnic minorities, and so on. And far too many for my liking seem to be falling for the wilder conspiracy theories, to left and right. But we still have a strong concept of non-partisan public service when it comes to election administration, judicial and administrative appointments. So far… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-prevent-this-election-nonsense-from-happening-again/924791.md?page=10)