# How to pronounce \[ɣ\] voiced velar fricative? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 28, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804 "2023-09-28T02:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/1 "2023-09-28T02:46:49Z")
Is it like a sound between [g] and [h]? I’m having a hard time pronouncing it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/2 "2023-09-28T03:36:43Z")
[Interactive IPA chart with sounds](https://www.ipachart.com/) may be of some use. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/3 "2023-09-28T08:44:22Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > I’m having a hard time pronouncing it. If it’s not already existing in your first language(s), I think it’s generally _very_ hard to learn as an adult. Most people I’ve seen try, can only approximate it with the uvular variant, and even then that’s an achievement. Most people who try, end up sounding like Gollum… ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/4 "2023-09-28T09:04:04Z")
It takes some practice, but it’s basically a [g] that allows continuous airflow, well at least as long as you can go without breathing in. [g] is a sound that you can’t hold. It’s discrete if you will, whereas [ɣ] is continuous. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/5 "2023-09-28T10:24:33Z")
Right — same place of articulation, just not pressing the tongue as hard such that air can pass. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/6 "2023-09-28T11:18:14Z")
Does it have any relationship witht he [h] sound ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/7 "2023-09-28T11:43:09Z")
In terms of place of articulation, no. [h] is made by constructing air in your glottis, whereas [ɣ] is between the back of the tongue and the velum. In terms of sound, they’re both non-sibilant fricatives I don’t think English has any voiced plosive/fricative minimal pairs that are articulated exactly the same, so it’s hard to compare to a different part of the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/8 "2023-09-28T16:08:51Z")
If you can make the [x] sound (as in German _Bach_), start there. Whatever you do to move from K to G, do the same thing to move from [x] to [γ]. That’s how I learned it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/9 "2023-09-28T23:03:00Z")
[ɣ] is then a combination of g and h sound? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/10 "2023-09-28T23:18:33Z")
That’s not a terrible way to describe it, but it’s not really helpful, either. [γ] is a voiced fricative, like [v] and [z]. [h] is a fricative, too, but it’s unvoiced. [γ] is a velar consonant, like [k] and [g]. So [g] is a voiced velar (where you make the sound), and you need to have your mouth there; _how_ you make the sound is the same way you make the other fricatives. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/11 "2023-09-29T03:55:25Z")
I would not say it has anything to do with [h]. It’s like [g], but you open your mouth ever so slightly more, so that you can sustain the sound. And, yes, it is the same thing as the difference between lock and loch. Unfortunately, there aren’t really any good stop vs. fricative pairs in English otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-pronounce-voiced-velar-fricative/990804/12 "2023-09-29T11:50:33Z")
And I’ve encountered a lot of English speakers who attempt [x] with something farther back like [χ]. Other pair examples (bad ones) would be like if you had no top lip and tried a [b] sound by biting your bottom lip, which is [b̪], vs [v]. Those are both voiced and articulated the same, but the latter is a fricative. Also see [d] vs [ð] or [ʒ], none of which are articulated quite the same.