# How to put out a burning bale of hay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127 "2004-10-08T00:36:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/21 "2004-10-08T03:10:58Z")
Firefighter, here. Hay is indeed a stinker to fully extinguish, as is mulch, and other organic materials whose structure offers a high surface area. The tactic of years past was to use super high pressure pumps (John Bean was a popular manufacturer) to break up the burning material and force water to the seat of the fire. It didn’t work in practice as well as it did on the drawing board, and I haven’t seen any Bean pumps in the fire service for decades. The approach today is to use any of a number of additives, be they something like [Pyrocap©](http://www.pyrocap.com/) or another emulsifying/surfactant agent. With a lowered surface tension, water is better able to penetrate a commodity such as hay and achieve extinguishment. We’ve also seen that the total _volume_ of water applied is reduced, thereby making extinguishment of materials such as mattresses and furnishings easier, faster, and reducing collateral water damage in interior scenarios. Full-time foam and compressed air foam systems are enjoying high popularity at the moment, being specced on most trucks that I’ve seen at trade shows over the last few years, but having had no direct hands-on as a driver/operator or nozzleman, I cannot intelligently comment of the efficacy of CAFS from personal experience. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/22 "2004-10-08T03:33:36Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The approach today is to use any of a number of additives, be they something like [Pyrocap©](http://www.pyrocap.com/) or another emulsifying/surfactant agent. With a lowered surface tension, water is better able to penetrate a commodity such as hay and achieve extinguishment. How about one of those home pressure washers with a detergent attachment (the kind that adds soap to the water stream so you get a spray of sudsy water)? I’m thinking of stuff that Joe Homeowner might have onhand. Might take some time and a couple of bottles of detergent though. Or just grab some coathangers and a bag of marshmallows and enjoy the show. ---
**Author:** ![frenetic\_amnesic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@frenetic\_amnesic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frenetic_amnesic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/23 "2004-10-08T03:53:04Z")
hijack… Ok I was thinking about doing something like this around Halloween but on a bigger scale, and on my own property. How much is a bail of hay (round), and is it possible to stack maybe three atop each other? ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/24 "2004-10-08T04:25:37Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > John Bean was a popular manufacturer) to break up the burning material and force water to the seat of the fire. It didn’t work in practice as well as it did on the drawing board, and I haven’t seen any Bean pumps in the fire service for decades. > > Full-time foam and compressed air foam systems are enjoying high popularity at the moment, being specced on most trucks that I’ve seen at trade shows over the last few years, but having had no direct hands-on as a driver/operator or nozzleman, I cannot intelligently comment of the efficacy of CAFS from personal experience. I’ve had the opportunity to use a CAFS on a couple wildland fires. It worked very well, we used less water and had less mop-up. It seems like it would be just the thing for a hay fire, due to the increased water penetration, but I’ve never had the chance to try it. I’d also like to add that the Bean pumps were great! My old department had a 1956 Chevy/Bean as a parade piece. The pump was still operational so we played with it every once in a while. Never used it on an actual fire, though. St. Urho ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/25 "2004-10-08T05:01:46Z")
People are burning round _hay_ bales? I’d be shocked if they weren’t in fact straw. A round hay bale is worth way too much to burn as a prank, whereas straw’s worth bugger all. **t-keela** ’s suggestion should work for putting it out, but there’s no way you’re going to roll it back up without a baler. Best get out a pitchfork. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/26 "2004-10-08T05:36:09Z")
A round bale of coastal bermuda will run you about $20-25 on average (here in East Texas). The leftover hay from the previous year is what you’d use to paint, burn, or waste. It’s been in the weather all year and is often moldy and mildewy. If it has penetrated past the first or second layer most ranchers will trash it. Unless there’s too many bales to waste. That doesn’t happen too often. **Gorsnak** I didn’t mean to imply that I could roll the whole thing up…I meant that with a pitchfork it could be rolled a little bit and then pitch that onto a trailer. The hay is layered in rows and then baled in a roller. The hay will unroll and make a carpet several inches thick that is fairly woven together. You could take a pitchfork and while wetting it, flip it back over and again a time or two then use the fork to pitch it on the trailer. All of the hay should come up that way and not leave too big of a mess. I’ve done this with old hay several times. I’d roll off the outside layer then haul it off to a washout or fill in cattle trails with it. (none of it was afire though). Sorry I wasn’t clear…it’s just whenever you’re loading loose hay on a trailer I always think pitchfork, whether I say it or not. Didn’t I say **pitch** it onto a trailer? hmm…my old brain must be gettin feeble. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/27 "2004-10-08T06:15:09Z")
Ah, I thought you meant roll it back into a coherent bale. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/28 "2004-10-08T06:37:25Z")
Why bother to put it out? Pick up the whole bale (if the outside is burning, spray it with a hose a bit first) with your bale fork, haul it out to the middle of the dirt paddock behind the barn, and dump it there for your horses or cows to eat. They won’t be put off by the fact that parts of the bale are smouldering; they’ll enjoy the insect-free area of the smoke. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/29 "2004-10-08T07:03:15Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Why bother to put it out? > > Pick up the whole bale (if the outside is burning, spray it with a hose a bit first) with your bale fork, haul it out to the middle of the dirt paddock behind the barn, and dump it there for your horses or cows to eat. They won’t be put off by the fact that parts of the bale are smouldering; they’ll enjoy the insect-free area of the smoke. 😃 sounds good to me…I assumed the OP didn’t have a tractor, a hay lift, or a “tumble-bug”. Yeah…when’s the last time y’all saw a tumblebug? ---
**Author:** ![Sandlegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@Sandlegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandlegs)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/30 "2004-10-08T07:34:42Z")
yeah, are we taking about hay bales (cut alfalfa or grass put into bales) or straw bales (cut wheat stalks put into bales) hay is worth more and much denser than straw. for the city folk, hay is what the animals eat, and straw is what the animals sleep on and try to eat. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/31 "2004-10-08T07:47:31Z")
I guarantee you they aren’t burning alfalfa. That shit goes for ten times what coastal bermuda does. Besides it’s usually baled into square bales because of the weight. And the fact that it’s a green hay. (apt to self ignite) Not too much of it grown this far south anyway. It likes a colder climate. Nobody jacks with straw…not worth anything. Not much wheat here anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/32 "2004-10-08T14:10:50Z")
Alfalfa shouldn’t self-ignite if it was cured properly before baling. Alfalfa/grass mixes are the most common form of hay up here, and while I’ve heard of bales heating, it’s certainly not common, and it’s always because some idjit tied it up while it was too wet. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/33 "2004-10-08T14:31:31Z")
According to my brother the firefighter, it is often impossible to put them out without breaking them up. If they are burning internally, making ventilation holes with a fire hose can make things worse. Once the bale has sufficient internal heat water simply compacts the bale more and encourages further combustion. He told me about a sawdust pile at a wood mill that burned for weeks after staff tried to put out a fire started by spontaneous combustion. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/34 "2004-10-08T15:16:02Z")
- - - This probably does not fall under the heading of “practical solutions”, but anyway… In the ancient past at textile factories, when bales of cotton caught fire they would pour kerosene on the bales to put them out. The reason was that the cotton would smolder internally, and water would not soak all the way through it. If you tried to use water, the smoldering would just keep drying the cotton out as the smoldering went, burning more cotton. Kerosene would soak all the way through and smother/cool the fire out right away, and then what cotton that was left could still be washed and used for something. ~ ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/35 "2004-10-08T15:38:32Z")
> [@frenetic amnesic](#): > > hijack… Ok I was thinking about doing something like this around Halloween but on a bigger scale, and on my own property. How much is a bail of hay (round), and is it possible to stack maybe three atop each other? Don’t know prices but here are some [hay sculptures](http://www.everettsfarm-market.com/haysculptures.php). ---
**Author:** ![Leonard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@Leonard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leonard)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/36 "2004-10-08T16:24:28Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The approach today is to use any of a number of additives, be they something like [Pyrocap©](http://www.pyrocap.com/) or another emulsifying/surfactant agent. With a lowered surface tension, water is better able to penetrate a commodity such as hay and achieve extinguishment. Ah, the surface tension. I hadn’t even thought about that being the reason why the water wasn’t penetrating enough to extinguish it. So maybe a little detergent with water. Cool, good point. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/37 "2004-10-08T17:50:55Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Alfalfa shouldn’t self-ignite if it was cured properly before baling. Alfalfa/grass mixes are the most common form of hay up here, and while I’ve heard of bales heating, it’s certainly not common, and it’s always because some idjit tied it up while it was too wet. I agree that’s absolutely true. But also realize that in some parts of Texas it get’s really hot and for long periods of time. It’s not exactly common here either but I know of a few stories where hay has burned up somebody’s barn. That’s the problem with hay. It looks like rain and you got whole field cut and rowed up for baling that ain’t quite ready yet. You’d like rake it again but… Now go put that in the barn. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/38 "2004-10-08T18:42:41Z")
No one has mentioned yet that adding water can encourage combustion another way–the moisture speeds the decay process, which releases additional heat of its own. At least, that’s been been my experience with compost heaps of tree leaves and grass clippings. I wouldn’t think straw or hay bales (especially year-old moldy ones) are much different. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/39 "2004-10-08T19:06:40Z")
Yes, as a youngster people told me a wet haybale pile could spontaneously combust, and I’d feel the heat when I put my hand in between bales or flakes (this was rectangular bales, usually of oats & vetch). I wuz thinking, man the price of hay must be way down before people started using those big bales for jokes! ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127/40 "2004-10-08T20:44:52Z")
- - - Some people in the St Louis area a while back had their garage suffer fire damage, because they had picked a small pail of walnuts that spontaneously combusted. They had gone somewhere else to pick them, and when they got home the lady put the (metal) bucket in her garage and placed a metal pan with a rock on top of it over the bucket, to keep their dog from trying to eat the nuts. They left to go somewhere else, and a couple hours later fire broke out, and the fire dept said it was centered on where the pail of nuts had been. I had heard that plants could combust on their own, but I would have not believed that _one single bucketfull_ could do it. …I dunno the exact details now but the story appeared in the local newspapers. ~ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-put-out-a-burning-bale-of-hay/268127.md?page=3)