# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/181 "2010-06-18T22:31:33Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m a fucking moron? Yes > [@](#): > > For criticizing the actions of a man who feels it neccesary to punch a women in the face for trying to defend her friend from a bullshit arrest? No. For failing to acknowledge that both women are clearly at fault here. If a cop decides to write you a ticket, as has been previously explained to you, you do not get to tell him to kiss your ass and walk away. You are required by law to stop and receive the ticket. Whether you think the ticket is fair, sound public policy, or otherwise a proper use of public resources is utterly irrelevant. If you do not obey the lawful command of a police officer, he can, and probably will arrest you. Again it does not matter whether you think the arrest is bullshit. If you resist, the officer can and probably will use whatever force is necessary to complete the arrest. If someone else attempts to prevent that arrest by assaulting the officer, the officer can and probably will use force against that person in self defense, and to complete an arrest for the crime of assaulting a police officer. This is the way the world works. Your approval is not required or significant in any way. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/182 "2010-06-18T23:09:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Where did you see that? It’s certainly not shown in the video linked in the OP. I read the article as well. It’s actually mentioned in the OP that he was talking to a man about his jaywalking when the girls jaywalked as well. The article says > [@](#): > > One of the women, later identified as a 19 year old, began to walk away from the scene despite the officer’s instructions, prompting the officer to walk over to her and escort her back to his patrol car. > > The girl then “began to tense up her arm, and pull away from the officer while yelling at him,” investigators said. The officer told the girl to place her hands on his patrol car, but she refused. When the officer tried to grab hold of her, “she pulled away and twisted, breaking free of the officer’s grip several times,” the blotter report said. what we see in the video is the woman being belligerent to the officer. When he attempts to cuff her she resists and it gets worse from there. So we have some reason to believe whats written and no evidence at all to assume a white officer decided arbitrarily to hassle these poor black girls. Any reasonably intelligent citizen would not physically resist arrest without expecting the officer to react accordingly. After the punch we see the officer speaking calmly trying to get her to cooperate so he doesn’t have to hurt her more. As I said, what started out as a ticket , bullshit or not, was escalated by the stupid behaviour of those two mouthy teenagers. There’s nothing to indicate the officer had any intention of arresting anyone for jaywalking. The arrest was for something else. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/183 "2010-06-18T23:20:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m a fucking moron? For criticizing the actions of a man who feels it neccesary to punch a women in the face for trying to defend her friend from a bullshit arrest? even if the arrest was bullshit do you think physically assaulting an officer is the smart thing and actually going tom help your friend? She was not being arrested for jaywalking. She was being arrested for failing to follow the officers lawful commands and physically resisting him. It’s her own dam stupid fault. When I worked the bars I expected to get pulled over and given a filed sobriety test for little or no reason because of the time of day. I even had one officer admit he had no reason to pull me over. I was always respectful and cooperative because bullshit or not, being combative does not help. Reading a little further I disvcovered both these drama queens have police records, the first one for assaulting a female officer. They should have fucking known better and got what they deserved. He threw one punch at the one who assualted him and let’s note she was no frail flower of womanhood. She was as big as the officer. Seriously, for you and others critisizing the officer. How do you expect him to react to being assualted. What exactly do you expect him to do? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/184 "2010-06-18T23:59:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m a fucking moron? Can we put this up for a vote? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/185 "2010-06-19T00:17:56Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Can we put this up for a vote? Vote for what? How do get a total higher than unanimous? ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/186 "2010-06-19T02:28:25Z")
1. The Officer was poorly trained. No. Punching is taught as a method of controlling belligerent people to the police here. So he was _following_ his training. 1. Officer was wasting time by ticketing people for jaywalking. Nope. SPD was _asked_ by Franklin High School to help cut down on the jaywalking by their students across a dangerous street, when there is a pedestrian overpass _right there_. 1. Just another point to make - Angel Rosenthal apologized _to the officer_ today (with the encouragement/blessing of the Urban League), but is also still facing charges that could lead to 30 days in jail and a year on probation. (and she may get additional time, as she already had some deferred charges that could be brought back up if she got in trouble again. Assaulting a cop would probably count as ‘getting in trouble’, I think). (Oh, and ‘Hi Opal!’) ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/187 "2010-06-19T02:51:30Z")
I’m willing to accept the rule: You shove a cop, you get punched in the face. Don’t shove cops. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/188 "2010-06-19T03:01:21Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’m willing to accept the rule: You shove a cop, you get punched in the face. Don’t shove cops. Exactly. The whole idea of having cops in the first place is that these are the folks who are empowered to show up and take control of a situation. If you interfere with them, you get interfered with. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/189 "2010-06-19T03:34:53Z")
I was surprised to just read (Yahoo News) that the 17 year-old girl and the cop met today in private (not alone, just without media present) where apparently the girl apologized to the officer, who accepted the apology… She will be charged as a minor with a 3rd degree felony assaulting a police officer, but as a minor the most that can happen is she gets 30 days juvenile detention. I am a bit taken aback at this, as I assumed a lawsuit was in the works, but I suppose that could still be down the road afterall. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/190 "2010-06-19T04:04:29Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I am a bit taken aback at this, as I assumed a lawsuit was in the works, but I suppose that could still be down the road afterall. I assume you mean a suit by the girls against the cop/city? What do you think would provide a basis for such a suit? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/191 "2010-06-19T04:56:25Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Props to the other young adults who didn’t get sucked into diva central. They knew the score…even the male jaywalker. That was refreshing. Even the “Are you serious?” guy and the cell phone video crew knew what the boundaries were. Props to them as well. > > For shits and giggles, I [google-mapped](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3100+Martin+Luther+King,+Jr.+Way+S.+,+Seattle,+WA&sll=34.474455,-117.287641&sspn=0.013019,0.027874&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=3100+Martin+Luther+King+Jr+Way+S,+Seattle,+King,+Washington+98144&ll=47.575474,-122.29668&spn=0.001332,0.003484&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=47.575565,-122.29668&panoid=bMxdauaodU7iD_mkI4pl1w&cbp=12,337.15,,0,16.57) the street in question…and guess what…yup…jaywalkers. Thats not possible. He gave her a ticket and arrested her and her friend. Therefore there is no more jaywalking. The ticket campaign must have ended it. Isn’t that what many are claiming. It is about revenue. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/192 "2010-06-19T05:35:08Z")
[http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=RESN&s1=30951.resn.&Sect6=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=%2F~public%2Fcbor2.htm&r=1&f=G](http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?d=RESN&s1=30951.resn.&Sect6=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=%2F~public%2Fcbor2.htm&r=1&f=G) Cop wasn’t being a butt head, he was doing his job, as ordered by the Seattle city council. (out dated link but still relevant) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/193 "2010-06-19T11:41:51Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I was surprised to just read (Yahoo News) that the 17 year-old girl and the cop met today in private (not alone, just without media present) where apparently the girl apologized to the officer, who accepted the apology… > > She will be charged as a minor with a 3rd degree felony assaulting a police officer, but as a minor the most that can happen is she gets 30 days juvenile detention. > > I am a bit taken aback at this, as I assumed a lawsuit was in the works, but I suppose that could still be down the road afterall. Why were you surprised? She clearly assualted an officer. The apology may have helped reduce her punishment. The 19 year old already had assaulting an officer on her list of crimes. It won’t be as minor for her. I doubt there will be a lawsuit although they may have drooled over the thought for a moment. She doesn’t have a leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/194 "2010-06-19T12:14:29Z")
Did the officer know she had already assaulted another officer? If he didn’t, the point is irrelevant, if he did, it could be seen as a substantial factor as to why he was so gung-ho over a jaywalking ticket. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/195 "2010-06-19T12:37:48Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Did the officer know she had already assaulted another officer? If he didn’t, the point is irrelevant, if he did, it could be seen as a substantial factor as to why he was so gung-ho over a jaywalking ticket. You are ridiculous. The point is that she should have known better than to resist and assault an officer. It is not irrelevant. These were not innocent HS students who just got caught up in the moment and made a bad call. I doubt the officer had any idea about their records. He was trying to do a simple job and **they** made it worse by not cooperating and giving him shit he was forced to respond to as an officer. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/196 "2010-06-19T12:39:06Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Thats not possible. He gave her a ticket and arrested her and her friend. Therefore there is no more jaywalking. The ticket campaign must have ended it. Isn’t that what many are claiming. > It is about revenue. It may be but that doesn’t make these two girls any less guilty or less at fault. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/197 "2010-06-19T13:30:33Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It may be but that doesn’t make these two girls any less guilty or less at fault. What, you think inventing an offense and then parking a LEO in an area where they know they are going to make money, is a good use of police time? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/198 "2010-06-19T14:20:30Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What, you think inventing an offense and then parking a LEO in an area where they know they are going to make money, is a good use of police time? I’m begining to think you just like making stupid arguments to yank people’s chains. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about how the Seattle PD handles thier priorities. The girls were still wrong and made something simple much worse with their own ignorant choices. A bullshit ticket does not excuse or justify assaulting an officer. I’d be pretty annoyed if I got a ticket for jaywalking but I wouldn’t be stupid enough to make it into an arrest or an assaulting an officer charge. Why don’t you answer the questions I asked? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/199 "2010-06-19T14:22:49Z")
Which questions? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/200 "2010-06-19T14:43:43Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What, you think **inventing an offense** and then parking a LEO in an area where they know they are going to make money, is a good use of police time? Do you teach classes in how to be disingenuous or something? “Inventing an offense”? It’s jaywalking, not “1st degree wearing a purple hat on Wednesdays”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=11)