# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Drew\_Kit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Drew\_Kit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drew_Kit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/221 "2010-06-19T21:11:29Z")
Jaywalking is only an offence in the USA. In civilised countries it is cars that are considered a nuisance to people and so pedestrians have the default right of way. I’ve seen cops act violently from fear/anger/lack of self-control, and for political reasons, and also once out of simple sadistic stupidity. This shouldn’t even be a question of the cops professionality but his very manliness - surely the weakest of us would have found a more minimal level of force to restrain a girl than a punch in the face? I would not trust him to walk my dog let alone any public-facing role. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/222 "2010-06-19T21:21:53Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Jaywalking is only an offence in the USA. In civilised countries it is cars that are considered a nuisance to people and so pedestrians have the default right of way. > > I’ve seen cops act violently from fear/anger/lack of self-control, and for political reasons, and also once out of simple sadistic stupidity. This shouldn’t even be a question of the cops professionality but his very manliness - surely the weakest of us would have found a more minimal level of force to restrain a girl than a punch in the face? I would not trust him to walk my dog let alone any public-facing role. I can tell you: (i) didn’t watch the video – he was phsically hindered from doing his job; and (ii) have no clue about the real reason for U.S. jaywalking laws – they’re to protect pedestrians. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/223 "2010-06-19T22:06:54Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > I can tell you: > > (i) didn’t watch the video – he was phsically hindered from doing his job; and > (ii) have no clue about the real reason for U.S. jaywalking laws – they’re to protect pedestrians. And I’ve heard the UK called a “nanny state”! Why don’t you assign officers to hold pedestrian’s hands while you are fucking at it? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/224 "2010-06-19T22:07:10Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I didn’t see him get assaulted by the woman who got punched. > > If Italian police reacted the same way to people gesturing frantically, they’d be punching people all day. Any non blind person who watched the video saw the girl he punched push him before he punched her. That’s assualting an officer plain and simple. more evidence that you get your jollys just fucking with people with your bullshit posts. It’s no skin off my nose but it loses it’s appeal real dam quick. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/225 "2010-06-19T22:16:42Z")
If you think the right response for a police officer who is already having difficulty manhandling a woman for a bullshit offense, is to then punch another woman in the face for trying to intervene, there’s not a lot I can do for you. And to do it in front of a crowd of people? On his own? The man was a fucking idiot and was lucky to avoid getting kicked to a pulp. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/226 "2010-06-19T22:21:46Z")
> [@Drew\_Kit](#): > > Jaywalking is only an offence in the USA. In civilised countries it is cars that are considered a nuisance to people and so pedestrians have the default right of way. > > I’ve seen cops act violently from fear/anger/lack of self-control, and for political reasons, and also once out of simple sadistic stupidity. This shouldn’t even be a question of the cops professionality but his very manliness - surely the weakest of us would have found a more minimal level of force to restrain a girl than a punch in the face? I would not trust him to walk my dog let alone any public-facing role. People keep saying that as if her gender should be a huge factor. How about her physical size and weight? She was as big as the officer. Have you no sense what damage a large mad determined woman can do? I’ve seen several women draw back and full on punch another woman or a guy square in the face and drop them. He was assualted by someone as big as him while he was trying to arrest someone else. There really wasn’t much sense in trying to reason or plead with her to be nice. He had already warned her and she still came on and pushed him. If it wasn’t a punch then some other violence was going to happen. Mace? Taser? Twist her arm, throw her to the ground and pounce on her back? Once you assualt an officer their job is to immobilize that person ASAP so they can’t hurt the officer. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/227 "2010-06-19T22:26:06Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If you think the right response for a police officer who is already having difficulty manhandling a woman for a bullshit offense, is to then punch another woman in the face for trying to intervene, there’s not a lot I can do for you. And to do it in front of a crowd of people? On his own? The man was a fucking idiot and was lucky to avoid getting kicked to a pulp. evidently everyone in the video is smarter than you. Even the ones that objected. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/228 "2010-06-19T22:57:27Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > evidently everyone in the video is smarter than you. Even the ones that objected. Tou-friggin-che! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/229 "2010-06-19T23:01:22Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > When he walked over to me, I was expecting him to push me back towards the chair and he kneed me in the balls. I was there; I know it happened, and you know fuck all. I’m inclined to believe you, so . . . . . . wait, hang on: [QUOTE=ivan astikov] I didn’t see him get assaulted by the woman who got punched. [/QUOTE] Huh. Now I almost _ **need** _ to figure you assaulted the cop first. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/230 "2010-06-19T23:18:10Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I was already arrested, at the police station, and had been handed over to a plain clothes officer, or detective, as you might describe them. I had my hands cuffed behind my back and was being told to sit down on a chair in the interview room, which I refused to do and told him to go fuck himself when he raised his voice. > > When he walked over to me, I was expecting him to push me back towards the chair and he kneed me in the balls. I was there; I know it happened, and you know fuck all. After reading this thread, Gandhi would knee you in the balls. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/231 "2010-06-20T00:38:00Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > I doubt seriously that a Law Enforcement professional attacked you. I’m quite very sure that he used forced necessary to complete the arrest. I have no position on whether a law enforcement professional would physically attack **ivan astikov** , but I have no trouble believing that one would gag him. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If you think the right response for a police officer who is already having difficulty manhandling a woman for a bullshit offense, is to then punch another woman in the face for trying to intervene, there’s not a lot I can do for you. And to do it in front of a crowd of people? On his own? The man was a fucking idiot and was lucky to avoid getting kicked to a pulp. So you’re adding anti-feminist to your list, then? She got the same treatment anyone else would get, and she got off lightly. She committed the offense, there was no bullshit involved except in your peabrain. Your belief that law enforcement should be subject to the immediate popular whim of the crowd is discarded as unrealistic. You’ll also note the crowd tacitly agreed with him–where does that leave you, chuckles? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/232 "2010-06-20T01:01:39Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I have no position on whether a law enforcement professional would physically attack **ivan astikov** , but I have no trouble believing that one would gag him. > > So you’re adding anti-feminist to your list, then? She got the same treatment anyone else would get, and she got off lightly. > > She committed the offense, there was no bullshit involved except in your peabrain. > > Your belief that law enforcement should be subject to the immediate popular whim of the crowd is discarded as unrealistic. You’ll also note the crowd tacitly agreed with him–where does that leave you, chuckles? She got off lightly? She got punched in the face and arrested. Thank you, may I have another. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/233 "2010-06-20T01:11:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > She got off lightly? She got punched in the face and arrested. As per the quote Shodan helpfully bolded: > [@](#): > > “My critique is that **he could have used more force** and taken the girl to the ground,” O’Neill said. “He could have grabbed her, it’s called a leg sweep, handcuffed her and it would have been over a lot faster, but **when you take someone to the ground you risk more injury**.” So there’s another technique – recommended for its ability to end things a lot faster – which involves using more force to risk more injury. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/234 "2010-06-20T01:12:55Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > She got off lightly? She got punched in the face and arrested. Thank you, may I have another. And if she didn’t want that to happen, all she had to do was NOT assault the officer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/235 "2010-06-20T02:26:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > And if she didn’t want that to happen, all she had to do was NOT assault the officer. He did not assault her, but she assaulted him? What weird logic. I can not image people can actually defend him punching her in the face. But there are a not of people who blindly defend the cops in all cases.A well trained mature cop would not have sucker punched a lady. He would not have risked escalating a rather innocuous incident into something huge. It was a stupid thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/236 "2010-06-20T02:34:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He did not assault her, but she assaulted him? Correct. Maybe we’re making progress here. He had a legal right to do what he was doing, ie, arrest the other girl. She had no legal right to interfere with that arrest, nor did she have any legal right to touch the officer. When she did that, she broke the law, and he was entitled to use force to defeat her interference, to complete the arrest of the other girl, and to arrest the one he hit. Again, it does not matter whether you think the jaywalking, failure to obey a lawful command, resisting arrest, or assault on a police officer laws are wise, just, or sound public policy. Had neither girl jaywalked, this would not have happened. Had the first girl obeyed the lawful command to stop and receive her ticket, she would have been ticketed and released. Had she not resisted arrest, the officer would not have manhandled her. Had her friend not interfered, the friend would not have been hit or charged with a crime for assaulting an officer. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/237 "2010-06-20T02:54:46Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > She doesn’t have a leg to stand on. She does; the officer opted NOT to do the leg sweep. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/238 "2010-06-20T03:15:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > She got off lightly? She got punched in the face and arrested. Thank you, may I have another. As opposed to getting leg-swept into the pavement and then arrested, as the officer was trained to do and by department policy supposed to do? Yes, she did get off easy. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/239 "2010-06-20T03:40:52Z")
She’s lucky she didn’t get tazered or worse. I have no pity on someone interfering with a policeman performing his duty. Notice how her boyfriend was trying to hold her back before she twisted away from him and got in the policeman’s face. And he finally got a hold of her again (after the punch). It didn’t help the situation with the cameraman repeatedly asking, “Are you serious? Are you f\*\*\*\*\*g serious?” Hell yes, he’s serious. He’s a cop; what he does is serious. (And reviewing it again, I think someone said, “C’mon, bop her!” just before he did.) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/240 "2010-06-20T03:46:50Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I didn’t see him get assaulted by the woman who got punched. Really? The woman twisted away from her boyfriend, got between the officer and the woman in black he was trying to arrest first, and _shoved_ him back. That’s assault plain and simple. If you’re saying that it was just an innocent push, what the hell is the threshold that police should use before calling it assault. Simply put: you forcefully touch a policeman, that’s assault. > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If Italian police reacted the same way to people gesturing frantically, they’d be punching people all day. One, she wasn’t gesturing, she shoved him. And two, this is Seattle, in the USA. We (supposedly) taught to respect the police. (Although respect for police is not as high as it should be in urban settings.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=13)