# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/241 "2010-06-20T04:00:08Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yes. > > I’ve never understood pedestrians who, in certain circumstances , have the right of way, and then ASSUME the car is AUTOMATICALLY going to give it to them. > > Yeah, they HAVE the right of way, but thats gonna do them damn little good when they get run over. In a car vs pedestrian battle the car wins everytime. > > I always assume the cars will not yield right of way, if not assume they are actually trying to hit me. Newton’s law for pedestrians: You may have the right of way, but a car has right of momentum. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/242 "2010-06-20T04:05:04Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Yep, he was also smart enough to pull her out of the fray when girl 1 jumped on the officer. Otherwise the officer would have had to be more vilolent in defending himself. > > Just for yucks I tried to find a different video because I noticed others there filming. What I found was an article talking about these two princesses have police records including the assault of a female officer, stealing a car, assaulting and robbing a 15 year old. > > One reason this is a big deal in Seattle is another fairly recent incident involving other officers who did beat up a Latino using racial epitaphs. Any violence questioned has to be examined because they are already under scrutiny Cites? ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/243 "2010-06-20T04:13:37Z")
[Teen Punched by Seattle Cop Apologizes](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/19/earlyshow/saturday/main6597844.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/244 "2010-06-20T04:15:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > As opposed to getting leg-swept into the pavement and then arrested, as the officer was trained to do and by department policy supposed to do? Yes, she did get off easy. In my opinion a leg-sweep would have been the wrong thing to do, as the cop would have had to bend over to subdue and cuff her and would have been at a severe disadvantage to see, prevent or fight back against anyone else (or possibly multiple people) in the mob who might decide to attack him. My guess would be that when officers are trained in using the leg-sweep, it is not in a mob or potential mob situation. I think the brass are simply using the leg-sweep tactic to keep from having to admit that sometimes it’s okay for an officer to cold-cock someone - especially when that someone happens to be a young black girl. I hope this guy isn’t scape-goated because he didn’t use the leg-sweep. He was professional and kept his cool and employed proper restraint through the entire episode. ETA: I hope her apology is sincere and not just an attorney-advised tactic to lessen her punishment in court. If sincere, I say kudos to her. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/245 "2010-06-20T07:01:40Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > She’s lucky she didn’t get tazered or worse. I have no pity on someone interfering with a policeman performing his duty. > > Notice how her boyfriend was trying to hold her back before she twisted away from him and got in the policeman’s face. And he finally got a hold of her again (after the punch). > > It didn’t help the situation with the cameraman repeatedly asking, “Are you serious? Are you f\*\*\*\*\*g serious?” Hell yes, he’s serious. He’s a cop; what he does is serious. > > (And reviewing it again, I think someone said, “C’mon, bop her!” just before he did.) I didn’t hear the bop her but after the punch a few people were critisizing him for punching the girl and someone says “with good reason, she laid her hands on him” or something close. So someone knew it was her own stupid fault. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/246 "2010-06-20T09:52:52Z")
Okay, let’s look at this a different way. How many people here think that this might have gone smoother in the hands of a different officer? How many people here know exactly how this event started and that the officer was firm but courteous to the offender until she started ballooning at him? And, I wonder what happened to the person the officer was initially pulling for jaywalking, when these other jaywalkers caught his eye? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/247 "2010-06-20T10:23:57Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay, let’s look at this a different way. How many people here think that this might have gone smoother in the hands of a different officer? How many people here know exactly how this event started and that the officer was firm but courteous to the offender until she started ballooning at him? Well, I do know that the person who got punched assaulted another police officer previously. I’m sure that was trumped-up bullshit too. What bad luck that this poor girl keeps finding herself subjected to such mistreatment. I give cops a lot of slack–there’s a wide range of “acceptable.” That doesn’t mean that abusive behavior is okay. But I find it sickening how easily people decide what they would have done in a tense, dangerous situation–after the fact, speculating from the comfort of their living rooms–second-guessing people who actually put themselves in harm’s way and are forced to exercise split-second judgment because of other people’s misbehavior. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/248 "2010-06-20T10:30:30Z")
So, what were the details regarding this girl’s previous assault? Have I missed them being posted somewhere? Was the officer as dangerously threatened as this one, and did he punch her in the face? One needs to be consistent when correcting a wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/249 "2010-06-20T15:15:51Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, what were the details regarding this girl’s previous assault? Have I missed them being posted somewhere? Was the officer as dangerously threatened as this one, and did he punch her in the face? One needs to be consistent when correcting a wrongdoing. You could click on and read some of the links provided or spend a minute or two doing a search. Here’s a thought. In light of the fact the girl apologized to the officer I’m thinking you could go find that officer who kneed you in the groin and apologize to him. From what I read the older girl has a charge of assualting a female officer and the younger one has a charge of car theft. They got off easy those charges easy because it was their first offense so they did the smart thing and just added more charges to thier record. They both were charged with hitting and robbing some younger kids but those charges were dropped. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/250 "2010-06-20T16:31:25Z")
Here’s a [http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-punch-cop,0,7172427.story](http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-punch-cop,0,7172427.story) of the same video. This one shows the girl that got punched being arrested. I thought this section helped put things in perspective. > [@](#): > > O’Neill says this was an appropriate use of force. > > “The officers are trained in boxing techniques, in closed fist strikes. When an officer is knocked off their feet and knocked to the ground, especially with a group that’s around horrible things can happen. People can start grabbing for their weapon or duty belt,” says O’Neill. > > In fact, for nearly two minutes after the officer punches the teenage girl, the video shows her friend continuing to try to break away. He was surrounded with no help from other officers. > > “For people to call this some sort of police brutality or racist incident is wrong,” says O’Neill. > > Former Seattle Police Officer Jason McKissack knows all too well how a simple arrest can escalate into a dangerous situation. He was trying to break up a fight two years ago when the suspects attacked him. > > “He was running at me from maybe ten feet away and he does a soccer kick to my face,” says McKissack. > > “The group turned on Jason and knocked him down. They kicked and beat him. This is what’s in the mind of our officers when they’re out on the street,” says O’Neill. > > McKissack isn’t on the force anymore. He suffered a traumatic brain injury that’s forever changed his life. It’s yet another reminder to other officers of what can happen on the job. yeah, it could have been a lot worse but not because the officer was wrong. Police cannot maintain authority on the streets if they allow people to just walk away from them when they feel like it. The officer maintained a professional approach and only resorted to force when he himself was assaulted. He kept repeating “stop resisting” and held both girls, rather than resorting to something more violent. The whole idea that an officer should give up, back off, or wait because things might escalate is a surrender of authority. It’s a matter of dealing with the situation at hand as it happens. You are talking to a group about jaywalking being illegal and dangerous and maybe writing a ticket and one girl just dismisses you and walks away. When you instruct her to return she ignores you. When you take her by the arm to lead her back to your car she resists and begins to cuss at you. When you tell her to turn around and put her hands on the car she refuses and when you try to physically turn her around she resists. At every point the girl is the one making a bad choice and escalating the situation. Then her cousin decides to do somethning really stupid and assualt an officer with a push. Again the officer has to respond to being assualted and he has a number of choices, one , taught in police training, is a closed fist strike. At that point it could have gotten a lot worse if anyone there decided to jump in, and that’s a valid point but the stronger point is that the officer had to respond to being assualted. Is it in any way realistic to think a calm comversation would have changed these girls minds and they would have started cooperating? Hell one pulled away from he friend who was trying to restrain her before she assaulted the officer. Both these geniuses had police records. You think girl #2 didn’t know her cuz already had an assaulting an officer record. Evidently she hadn’t learned anything from that. Maybe a sock in the face that apparently caused no real damage, will make her realize that fucking with the police can have some serious consequences. [Here’s a longer article](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012122660_coppunch16m.html) that gives more details and includes the girls previous records ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/251 "2010-06-20T16:56:12Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > Leave it you to make this about race when nowhere else _ **here** _ has done so, in your rabid need to take a swipe at the “liberal media,” whatever that is, whenever you can. Bite me, **Des**. Are you seriously trying to deny that the video shows a white cop and a black citizen? I made a statement of fact. There is absolutely nothing “racial” about doing so. Take your “racial” bullshit and shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/252 "2010-06-20T16:56:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He did not assault her, but she assaulted him? What weird logic. I can not image people can actually defend him punching her in the face. But there are a not of people who blindly defend the cops in all cases.A well trained mature cop would not have sucker punched a lady. He would not have risked escalating a rather innocuous incident into something huge. It was a stupid thing to do. Weird logic? It’s so simple. Once she assaulted him he was defending himself. He punched her one time. I would guess that even if both were civilians in an argument the officer would not be guilty of assualt after being pushed. It’s mot assault if you’re defending yourself, got it? 2ndly; The officer has to respond to the situation at hand and the people invloved. They escalated the situation and he had to respond to what they did. A jaywalking ticket got escalated into an arrest when the older decided she could just walk away and dismiss an officer trying to do his duty. It would be the same for any officer on any minor incident. If you get a ticket for speeding and decide to give the officer shit and drive away then it’s the driver escalating the situation not the officer. He can’t realistically shrug it off. If you get a ticket for littering , if you get a ticket for not scooping your dogs poop, and decide to give the officer shit and walk away then it’s you who have escalated the situation not the officer. If you decide to interfere with an officer trying to arrest someone by putting your hands on them then it’s you who have escalated the situation and the officer has to respond. You and Ivan like to critisize but neither has offered a direct answer to a simple question, After being assaulted by the 17 year old , while already trying to deal with another person resisting arrest, what do you think the officer should do? Let them walk away after the assault? Call for backup before proceeding? What if they decide to walk away while you’re waiting for backup? Would you have preferred a taser shot? What? If you’re going to continue to complain how wrong he was how about offering some reasonable viable alternative. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/253 "2010-06-20T17:03:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Bite me, **Des**. Are you seriously trying to deny that the video shows a white cop and a black citizen? I made a statement of fact. There is absolutely nothing “racial” about doing so. Take your “racial” bullshit and shove it up your ass. Right. If you read the articles you see the SPD called the local urban league right away and gave them the heads up on the incident. There’s video of the Urban League being interviewed about the incident. It seems to be the nature of the officers reaction that people object to although nobody has offered a realistic less violent alternative to the girls obvious assault on an officer. One young woman from the UL said, “if he had to back off and wait for other officers that’s what he should have done” sounds nice, except when you’re writing a ticket and someone decides they can say" fuck this shit" and just walk away you can’t wait for backup as they walk away. Consider also that you can’t always know how things will go and have to make the decision to call for backup on the fly. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/254 "2010-06-20T17:43:00Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay, let’s look at this a different way. How many people here think that this might have gone smoother in the hands of a different officer? How many people here know exactly how this event started and that the officer was firm but courteous to the offender until she started ballooning at him? > > And, I wonder what happened to the person the officer was initially pulling for jaywalking, when these other jaywalkers caught his eye? Since the officer was firm and courteous and trying not to cause unnessecary harm even after being assualted I think we can safely assume he was being professional before being assaulted. Different officers have different personalities but the same duty and very similar training. I tend to think the girl who initially walked away and started the escalation would have done so with any officer, would have resisted any officer and any other officer would have been forced to respond. The 17 year old has been in court and apologized to the officer, Her aunt flew in from another state and says she’s going to college. I hope this incident teaches her to not get invloved with her older cousin’s bullshit before she does something that really fucks up her life. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/255 "2010-06-20T18:39:21Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > And I’ve heard the UK called a “nanny state”! Why don’t you assign officers to hold pedestrian’s hands while you are fucking at it? You do realize that in a pedestrian-car accident there is usually someone else involved, probably a driver that was tootling along obeying the traffic laws then suddenly having to deal with having killed someone. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/256 "2010-06-20T18:58:11Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Bite me, **Des**. Are you seriously trying to deny that the video shows a white cop and a black citizen? I made a statement of fact. There is absolutely nothing “racial” about doing so. Take your “racial” bullshit and shove it up your ass. [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12590090&postcount=95) what you said in response to a post by Kyla. > [@](#): > > White cop, black citizen…of course it’s going to be a news story. Any and every effort to make the police look bad, and the liberal media just delights in airing this shit. Up until then, everyone here had been discussing this incident in terms jaywalking citizens and a cop’s reaction to that, and infractions while trying to ticket/arrest them. No one else made this racial (except a couple of “urban diva” swipes) but you, which you then extended into a knock on the so-called liberal media. So, choke on me. And take you disingenuous cherry-picking of your own posts and shove them up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/257 "2010-06-20T19:13:37Z")
**Cosmosdan** and **Shodan** , I guess you both missed the word “here” (at the SDMB) in my original post; that was easy to do since I bolded, italicized and underscored it. And I never denied there were white and black people involved and shown on the video. Where did that come from? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/258 "2010-06-20T19:25:00Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > You do realize that in a pedestrian-car accident there is \*\*usually \*\*someone else involved, probably a driver that was tootling along obeying the traffic laws then suddenly having to deal with having killed someone. Bolding mine. That tickled my funny bone for some reason as I’m picturing a driverless car indiscriminately mowing down pedestrians. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/259 "2010-06-20T19:27:18Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Bolding mine. That tickled my funny bone for some reason as I’m picturing a driverless car indiscriminately mowing down pedestrians. 😃 I do believe Stephen King wrote a documentary about that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/260 "2010-06-21T02:19:51Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > **Cosmosdan** and **Shodan** , I guess you both missed the word “here” (at the SDMB) in my original post; that was easy to do since I bolded, italicized and underscored it. And I never denied there were white and black people involved and shown on the video. Where did that come from? Where did what come from? The main issue is whther the officers blow was warrented and people were making a big deal out of jaywalking {not the reason} or that she was only a poor teenage girl,{guilty of assaulting an officer} so a lot of the discussion was not about race. Still, it’s obvious race has something to do with it since the SPD contacted the Urban League immediately. There were also references to race because of the other incident I mentioned before. I never even hinted anything about your posts and the issue of race did I? If that’s what you’re talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=14)