# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/281 "2010-06-21T18:03:32Z")
> [@robby](#): > > This is ridiculous. **Shot From Guns** is completely correct. The proper expression is to “effect an escape.” It’s not a regionalism; it’s standard English. > > You don’t know what you’re talking about, **Pleonast**. The expression “affect an escape” is nonsensical, and I’ve never heard it in my life by anyone with a good grasp of English grammar. It ranks up there with the expressions, “for all intensive purposes” _(sic)_ and “would of” _(sic)_. She may have been right about everything, but she sure was a cunt sore about it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/282 "2010-06-21T18:15:26Z")
> [@Bambro](#): > > She may have been right about everything, but she sure was a cunt sore about it. Don’t mince words man. Just tell us what you really think. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/283 "2010-06-21T18:21:56Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay. The cop is just doing his job, which on this particular day, involves targeting jaywalkers. He’s just spotted one offender and he is giving them a ticket, I suppose? Then, as he is dealing with said offender, a group of gang-banging types cross the road at the same time. > > Tell me the police officer is going to try and ticket them all, and you are lying. And any officer that did try to ticket them would be a power-mad moron. Gang banging types? Who said? Do you think it helps when you just make shit up? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/284 "2010-06-21T18:42:16Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Okay. The cop is just doing his job, which on this particular day, involves targetting jaywalkers. He’s just spotted one offender and he is giving them a ticket, I suppose? Then, as he is dealing with said offender, a group of gang-banging types cross the road at the same time. > > Tell me the police officer is going to try and ticket them all, and you are lying. And any officer that did try to ticket them would be a power-mad moron. I’ve seen pretty much exactly that scenario play out with illegally parked/standing cars. A cop came around to ticket a number of illegally parked vehicles (including mine). As he was writing a ticket for one car, I and some other folks were rushing to our cars to move them out of the way. (We were by the Lake, where it’s not uncommon to put your blinkers on, and hop out for a few minutes to enjoy the view.) He told us all to stay put, we were all getting tickets. And we did. I challenged the ticket later (and lost, although I’ve won several challenges which I shouldn’t have, so I figured it was all good.) Note that I, nor anyone else, did not shove the cop in protest of a ticket we disagreed with. And the cop ticketed every last person he could. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/285 "2010-06-21T18:44:39Z")
I’m not usually for police violence, but this seems at the right level for me: non-leathal force for interfering with an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/286 "2010-06-21T18:53:36Z")
If she’d tried to punch him, you’d have no argument from me, but she was ineffectively trying to prevent him from using bullying tactics on her friend. And the mention of “gang-banging types” was a hypothetical, **cosmodan**. So yes, I was making shit up. I’ll give you another scenario: say the officer was arresting a drunk outside a nightclub, on his own, and the drunk’s friend tried to intervene. Would you recommend the police officer giving the person a punch? ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/287 "2010-06-21T19:29:24Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If she’d tried to punch him, you’d have no argument from me, but she was ineffectively trying to prevent him from using bullying tactics on her friend. > > And the mention of “gang-banging types” was a hypothetical, **cosmodan**. So yes, I was making shit up. > > I’ll give you another scenario: say the officer was arresting a drunk outside a nightclub, on his own, and the drunk’s friend tried to intervene. Would you recommend the police officer giving the person a punch? Depends, does either drunk call the cop a _fucking pig_? Because I hear the punishment for that is a kick square in the nuts. (totally justified) Either way the interfering drunk should feel some pain unless he stands there with his hands behind his back waiting for the cuffs immediately following his interference. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/288 "2010-06-21T19:47:05Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > The cop in the video met the level of force he encountered appropriately. Actually, I think I disagree with this. And I’m not talking about the pink-shirt. I was a little surprised that he was having so much difficulty subduing the black shirt. I used to work with guys who trained police, and there are A LOT of more effective techniques for subduing someone than just grabbing their wrist as he appeared to be doing. I’m not saying he should be some master ninja, but I would have been fine if he had slammed black hard to the hood and cuffed her, after which he would have been free to deal more effectively with pink. And the way he was trying to subdue pink against the car. Again, not what I would think of as effective. Regarding the punch to pink’s face, it surprised me a bit, mainly because it was so obvious and carried so many risks - injuring his hand, allowing for overly dramatic film, exacerbating the situation. I’m reminded of the time I was watching tape of the ‘67 convention w/ a Chicago cop. He was very critical of the cops swinging their batons overhand at protesters’ heads. Not because he felt the violence was uncalled or, but because a baton can be used far more effectively. An overhead swing to the head just increases the possibility of blood and makes for much worse photos than a jab to the gut or any number of strikes to the limbs/trunk. I think this guy would have been better off to pull and effectively use his baton far earlier. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/289 "2010-06-21T19:51:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If she’d tried to punch him, you’d have no argument from me, but she was ineffectively trying to prevent him from using bullying tactics on her friend. He wasn’t bullying her friend. He was preforming his duty based on her own stupid decision to try and just walk away from a ticket. He can’t let that happen and still be doing his job. He was giving her a lawful command which she refused to cooperate with. You think “pretty please with sugar on it” would have worked? Yes it was a push and not a punch but it’s still a assualting an officer in the preformance of his duty. A relatively serious crime. You’ve been asked several times what you think he should have done \*\*after being pushed \*\* So far you got nothing. What happens after he says “you’re under arrest for assaulting an officer”. Do you think either of those girls would start cooperating? > [@](#): > > And the mention of “gang-banging types” was a hypothetical, **cosmodan**. So yes, I was making shit up. > > I’ll give you another scenario: say the officer was arresting a drunk outside a nightclub, on his own, and the drunk’s friend tried to intervene. Would you recommend the police officer giving the person a punch? I’m not sure how hypotheticals are relavant. I imagine officers are trained to judge the situation and respond accordingly. Did you read the post about the Seattle cop who got the crap beat out of him and permanent brain damage from trying to break up a fight? Officers neve know for sure exactly how people will respond or how the crowd might reposnd but they can’t stop doing their job because bad things might happen. “bad things might happen” is part of the job. It would depend on the size and general attitude of the drunks. Facing two men of decent size and weight who were resisting arrest I’d say call for back up and keep your night stick ready. If the drunk tries to walk away that’s resisting arrest and he can’t just let him go. If the drunk resists my guess is he’d be treated less gently than these girls were. I’ve seen videos of cops being assualted and hurt by drunk drivers they pulled over. That’s why I believe they don’t need to wait for a serious blow to land before they react. If the person is foolsih enough to physically resist arrest then they are capable of harming the officer. He has a right to prevent himslef from being hurt. If that means the perp is hurt and he isn’t, that’s the perps fault. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/290 "2010-06-21T20:02:46Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Actually, I think I disagree with this. And I’m not talking about the pink-shirt. I was a little surprised that he was having so much difficulty subduing the black shirt. I used to work with guys who trained police, and there are A LOT of more effective techniques for subduing someone than just grabbing their wrist as he appeared to be doing. I’m not saying he should be some master ninja, but I would have been fine if he had slammed black hard to the hood and cuffed her, after which he would have been free to deal more effectively with pink. > > And the way he was trying to subdue pink against the car. Again, not what I would think of as effective. > > Regarding the punch to pink’s face, it surprised me a bit, mainly because it was so obvious and carried so many risks - injuring his hand, allowing for overly dramatic film, exacerbating the situation. I’m reminded of the time I was watching tape of the ‘67 convention w/ a Chicago cop. He was very critical of the cops swinging their batons overhand at protesters’ heads. Not because he felt the violence was uncalled or, but because a baton can be used far more effectively. An overhead swing to the head just increases the possibility of blood and makes for much worse photos than a jab to the gut or any number of strikes to the limbs/trunk. > > I think this guy would have been better off to pull and effectively use his baton far earlier. It looked to me as if he was finding a compromise. He didn’t want to let her go but he didn’t want to be too violent and hurt her. He kept saying “stop resisting” and eventually he got her cuffed and in the car. I’m not sure when he called for backup, You can see him talking into his mike while he is holding pink shirt, but a lot of cops show up quick so he may have called before then. I think then too he was holding her and would have cuffed her if she cooperated but since she wasn’t he didn’t want to get more violent. It’s the restraint he showed before and after the punch that makes me believe he never lost control. I’m sure it’s a lot easier judgeing the situation from afar , watching a video, than it is being in it and making on the spot decisions. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/291 "2010-06-22T01:14:05Z")
[http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/](http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/) Cops are always right aren’they. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/292 "2010-06-22T01:29:57Z")
Who in this thread has said cops are always right? I have no love for policemen and have actually had my own bad experiences with them, including once being threatened with arrest for pushing the cops to question still-present witness to an assault on me.\* However, I had sense enough not to physically interact with them. These scofflaws didn’t and that is what makes the cops, in this instance, right. - I was actually handcuffed and put in the squad car but let get go later. At the moment one PO decided to cuff me, another officer said, “Goody, goody!” This is someone we want walking our streets carrying a gun!? I persuaded them to not arrest me and immediately went and filed a complaint for the threat/handcuffing. I was also once pulled over and told, after I had driven my new car from Indiana to NYC with temporary plates and still had time to get the permanent plates, “You shouldn’t be out at 7:00am on a Sunday, anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/293 "2010-06-22T01:31:36Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/](http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/) Cops are always right aren’they. Don’t be a fucking moron. I’ve criticized cops plenty on these Boards, and so have many other people. But the fact that i disagree with you about this particular incident doesn’t mean i’m arguing that cops are always right, you fucking imbecile. I think the cop in the case being discussed in this thread maybe could have handled the whole incident a little differently, and possibly a little better, but i’m not going to second-guess him when he was making a valid stop, and when a third party went out of her way to interfere with him performing his duties and physically impede him. Cops have a tough job. That fact does not excuse the bullies and the lawbreakers on the force, and we as a society need to be vigilant against abuses of police authority. But we also should do our best not to make their job even more difficult by interfering with them in their duties, or by misrepresenting their actions. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/294 "2010-06-22T01:51:16Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’ve criticized cops plenty on these Boards, and so have many other people. But the fact that i disagree with you about this particular incident doesn’t mean i’m arguing that cops are always right, you fucking imbecile. Hell, I think a fair number of posters here that have backed this particular cop in this instance HAVE been folks that have had BAD experiences with cops themselves in the past. If folks with a history like that have backed this cop, it ought to tell you something. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/295 "2010-06-22T02:01:45Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/](http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/) Cops are always right aren’they. Thanks much for providing that highly relevant cite. This clearly shows that the cop was utterly in the wrong for throwing the punch in the video. Officer Daves’ actions in trying to interfere with Wright taking his wife into the ER so clearly correlate with the topic at hand here, that I think it’s safe to say that we’re all going to choose to walk away from any officer who tries to give us a lawful ticket from here on out. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/296 "2010-06-22T02:17:30Z")
She got off easy. With the same gesture and similar physical exertion, he could have decided to tear her eye from its socket. That would have taught her the lesson she needed to learn, which is to do what a police officer tells you to do without question no matter where you are or what you are being told to do. Saying no to a police officer is an invitation to be taught that lesson. She got off remarkably easy from what that video shows. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/297 "2010-06-22T02:55:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/](http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/21/cop-arrests-medic-for-running-red-light-while-taking-stricken-wife-to-waiting-er/) Cops are always right aren’they. find one person in this thread who said anything close to that and you might have a point. As it is, you don’t, as usual. Stop embaressing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/298 "2010-06-22T13:17:04Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It looked to me as if he was finding a compromise. He didn’t want to let her go but he didn’t want to be too violent and hurt her. > … > I’m sure it’s a lot easier judgeing the situation from afar , watching a video, than it is being in it and making on the spot decisions. Yeah, I don’t mean to be too critical of the cop. But the initial situation impressed me as extremely unstable and dangerous. I’ve trained a bit in how to incapacitate and hurt people, and would never be content to simply hold their wrist and allow them to jerk around. Every cop I have discussed it with has been quite adept at applying “come-alongs” and using leverage to make an uncooperative person “assume the position.” While it might have looked more “violent” for the cop to slip his baton through her elbow and leverage her onto the hood, ISTM that it might have in fact been the safer approach. And maybe if he had taken more forceful control earlier, the situation would not have gotten to where pink thought she could step in. I’d be interested to hear from someone who knows what police training says about simply holding a resisting suspect by the wrist? Would be very interesting to hear how this film was reviewed by police trainers, in terms of what was done right and what wrong. Watching something like this, you couldn’t pay me enough to be a cop. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/299 "2010-06-22T14:15:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Yeah, I don’t mean to be too critical of the cop. But the initial situation impressed me as extremely unstable and dangerous. > > I’ve trained a bit in how to incapacitate and hurt people, and would never be content to simply hold their wrist and allow them to jerk around. Every cop I have discussed it with has been quite adept at applying “come-alongs” and using leverage to make an uncooperative person “assume the position.” While it might have looked more “violent” for the cop to slip his baton through her elbow and leverage her onto the hood, ISTM that it might have in fact been the safer approach. And maybe if he had taken more forceful control earlier, the situation would not have gotten to where pink thought she could step in. > > I’d be interested to hear from someone who knows what police training says about simply holding a resisting suspect by the wrist? Would be very interesting to hear how this film was reviewed by police trainers, in terms of what was done right and what wrong. > > Watching something like this, you couldn’t pay me enough to be a cop. I understand. I also think a little more force would have been justified to encourage cooperation. I’d have to watch again to see if yhe had his baton. It started as just writing a few tickets for jaywalking. Maybe he was concerned about the crowd and the obvious videos being taken. Who knows. I read that the guy got a grand for that particular video. He wanders the streets waiting for something to video that he can sell. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/300 "2010-06-22T14:58:41Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’d have to watch again to see if yhe had his baton. I would be astonished to learn that any big city cop on the streets did not carry at least a collapsible baton as part of his standard issue gear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=16)