# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/21 "2010-06-17T16:59:51Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Here’s what I’m seriously disturbed by: > > Affect? \*\*AFFECT?! \*\*I’m just not sure if it’s worse if the error was made by the police representative making the statement or the journalist writing it down. (And either way, it made it past the “editor” of this article.) Maybe she wanted her to escape skipping and singing _Follow the Yellow Brick Road_ or doing cartwheels. You’re so quick to judge… ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/22 "2010-06-17T17:02:17Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I have issues with police arresting people for jaywalking. Hell even if the officer told her not to and she did anyway I hardly think any of that was necessary. So officer took stupid action to set all this off. It was actually the first girl who set this off, not the officer. According to [KOMOnews.com](http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96353934.html): After seeing four girls jaywalking, the cop asked them to step over to his patrol car. They became “verbally antagonistic,” according to officials, and one of them started to walk away. The cop then walked over to her and escorted her back to his patrol car. She was told to place her hands on the car, but refused. He tried to grab hold of her, but she pulled away and broke from his grip. That’s when he started to try to handcuff her and the other girl stepped in to stop him from doing that. The first girl was not being arrested for jaywalking. She was being arrested for ignoring the officer’s commands. ---
**Author:** ![Redwing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@Redwing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redwing)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/23 "2010-06-17T17:03:35Z")
The amount of force used by the cop seems to be well below the reasonable limit from the video, but I do have to question the technique. Punching someone in the face is a great way to hurt your hand. Otherwise, what do you want him to do, get pushed around by some teenager? Draw a weapon? The girl gets no sympathy from me. She started a physical confrontation with a cop, which is about the last thing I can imagine anyone describing as a good idea. It’s even more pathetic when you read the article; the girl who was being handcuffed was being handcuffed because she tried to walk away from getting a frigging ticket. The cop should get a medal for writing jaywalking tickets. It’d be nice to see people actually walk to corner, and wait for the light to change instead of charging out into traffic to save a few yards. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/24 "2010-06-17T17:06:12Z")
No matter what city you’re in, if you’re on MLK Blvd. there’s some violence going down… ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/25 "2010-06-17T17:23:21Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Stupid is as stupid does. > > I hope some was yelling “call the amber lamps” Well, I guess we now know who you think should be subject to police violence. Why do you find it necessary to reference that incident? Race? You do know there are stupid people of every race (as your existence and posts here prove), right? And I say this after agreeing that those citizens were stupid for resisting arresst and assaulting an officer. And I repeat for those who ask what should he have done: > [@](#): > > “My critique is that he could have used more force and taken the girl to the ground,” O’Neill said. “ **He could have grabbed her, it’s called a leg sweep, handcuffed her and it would have been over a lot faster** , but when you take someone to the ground you risk more injury.” (emphasis mine) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/26 "2010-06-17T17:30:08Z")
I volunteered for a couple of years as an auxiliary cop. I can tell you that not only is it a bad idea to touch an officer when he is making an arrest, it’s a bad idea to even approach within touching distance. Too many variables in an arrest scenario often lead to dead people. Cops will immediately tell you to step back or move away. Failure to do so is going to result in a problem for you, and deservedly so. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/27 "2010-06-17T17:30:10Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > While I pretty much agree with this, after the friend does become involved, it’s indicated by the brass’ comments in [articles](http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/16/police.jaywalker/index.html?hpt=Sbin) I’ve read that, instead of the cop participating in a potential brawl, he should have used police-approved procedures to take her down to the ground (a leg sweep). Not only didn’t he do that but, since it appears he was losing control of the situation in general, he should have withdrawn and called for backup. As I read it, the officer you quoted was making the point that, in his view, the punch was relatively mild, and in that situation, it would have been acceptable to escalate as high as a leg sweep, which is a more forceful and more dangerous procedure. He wasn’t saying that the officer acted incorrectly, but rather that he exercised more restraint than he had to. (Of course, one might disagree with that commentator’s assessment; I’m just trying to put it in its proper context). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/28 "2010-06-17T17:31:04Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > Well, I guess we now know who you think should be subject to police violence. Why do you find it necessary to reference that incident? Race? You do know there are stupid people of every race (as your existence and posts here prove), right? > > And I say this after agreeing that those citizens were stupid for resisting arresst and assaulting an officer. Awwww. Look up my other posts. I’ve stated multiple times that there seem to be a higher percentage of asshole, over reacting cops than random chance would produce. I am no fan of po po’s or po po violence. But sometimes pretty please just doesnt work like some think it does. But sometimes stupid people do deserve a punch in the face. This one being one of them, and the “amber lamps” one being another. Hell, I had no idea the girl was black till a poster here brought it up. Hell, I would have liked it MORE if it had turned out to be some entitled rich white little bitch. And the little “amber lamps” guy was a racist shit himself IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/29 "2010-06-17T17:31:36Z")
I like to see any of you subdue TWO ‘girls’ by yourself without punching at least one of them. I’m siding with the officer on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/30 "2010-06-17T17:31:46Z")
Actually, I’ve found that punching in the face is a good way to squelch all kinds of deviant behaviors, not just jaywalking. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/31 "2010-06-17T17:34:17Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I like to see any of you subdue TWO ‘girls’ by yourself without punching at least one of them. > I’m siding with the officer on this one. That’s why the good lord invented Tazers… and guns. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/32 "2010-06-17T17:37:30Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > And I repeat for those who ask what should he have done: Which do you think is more likely to result in serious head trauma? A punch to the face or a 5 foot fall where you hit your head on the pavement? There is a reason helmets are encouraged on skateboards, bikes and such. And it generally isnt because they are going so fast. A fast, unexpected, leg sweep is very likely to result in you falling backwards and hitting the back of your head on the ground. IMO the cop showed restraint. I’d suspect he didnt even punch as hard as he could have for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/33 "2010-06-17T17:41:22Z")
More like how to get arrested for fuck all. As I say to my kid - the police have the power to lock you up. You have the power to talk your way out of almost any minor offense. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/34 "2010-06-17T17:43:04Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > I’d love to live somewhere where the police take jaywalking seriously. Here in DC, they ignore it. As a result, lots of people jaywalk even though the blocks are pretty short. Every day, I see some future Darwin Award winner, walk in front of oncoming traffic or try to scoot across in the middle of the road when he wouldn’t have a signal. Same here. Here in Hartford, it’s amazing how many pedestrians walk right in front of oncoming traffic. “Don’t Walk” signals are completely ignored. Ironically, when I visited D.C. years ago in high school, we were warned that D.C. police took jaywalking very seriously and that they would ticket jaywalkers. Sure enough, some of my classmates were ticketed for this. I guess things have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/35 "2010-06-17T17:44:17Z")
This cop showed terrific restraint and professionalism in the face of overwhelming numbers of potentially hostile onlookers. He should be commended for how he handled what could have turned into a VERY ugly situation. Heck, at about 1:35, when the 1st girl slaps at him, I think he’d have been justified in pulling his gun and ordering her down to the ground. But his awareness of the situation prolly told him that could escalate things by getting other (idiotic) people involved, and he conducted himself appropriately. I give him a “gg” on the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/36 "2010-06-17T17:44:19Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I like to see any of you subdue TWO ‘girls’ by yourself without punching at least one of them. Note too that the officer has to be conscious of the possibility of one of them going for his gun. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Actually, I’ve found that punching in the face is a good way to squelch all kinds of deviant behaviors, not just jaywalking. It’s ineffective against masochism. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/37 "2010-06-17T17:47:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > As I read it, the officer you quoted was making the point that, in his view, the punch was relatively mild, and in that situation, it would have been acceptable to escalate as high as a leg sweep, which is a more forceful and more dangerous procedure. He wasn’t saying that the officer acted incorrectly, but rather that he exercised more restraint than he had to. > > (Of course, one might disagree with that commentator’s assessment; I’m just trying to put it in its proper context). Yes, but by adding that using the leg sweep would have caused the incident to be over faster implies that the choice he made left it open for what happen to happen. Would I have been able to make that spur-of-the-moment, potentially incident-ending decision? I don’t know, but for the brass to suggest that police training and procedure offered a better choice in a rapidly escalating situation does suggest some criticism, even in the middle of a defense while acknowledging that risk is _part_ of the job. > [@billfish678](#): > > Which do you think is more likely to result in serious head trauma? I didn’t make that comment; police brass did. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/38 "2010-06-17T17:50:38Z")
So you are saying you would have preferred that the officer use the option that carried a higher risk of injury? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/39 "2010-06-17T17:53:03Z")
> [@OneChance](#): > > It was actually the first girl who set this off, not the officer. According to [KOMOnews.com](http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96353934.html): After seeing four girls jaywalking, the cop asked them to step over to his patrol car. They became “verbally antagonistic,” according to officials, and one of them started to walk away. The cop then walked over to her and escorted her back to his patrol car. She was told to place her hands on the car, but refused. He tried to grab hold of her, but she pulled away and broke from his grip. That’s when he started to try to handcuff her and the other girl stepped in to stop him from doing that. The first girl was not being arrested for jaywalking. She was being arrested for ignoring the officer’s commands. According to the [officer’s statement](http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/3/395/39512.pdf), the officer was in the process of talking to someone about jaywalking (there was a pedestrian overpass nearby), when these girls jaywalked to get over to them. Why is jaywalking there such a big concern? > [@](#): > > Between 2002 and 2006 more jaywalkers were hit by vehicles on Rainier Avenue South than in any other corridor in the city. > > During that period, 61 pedestrians were struck while jaywalking on Rainier Avenue South – nearly double the number of accidents on Aurora Avenue North, which had the second highest number of jaywalkers hit with 35, according to Seattle Transportation Department records. > > Also during that period, 23 other jaywalkers were hit in the South End, on Martin Luther King Jr. Way South and on Beacon Avenue South. Those roads also accounted for 126 pedestrian accidents at intersections. > > There were six jaywalking accidents on Aurora Avenue North in the several blocks south of North 125th Street between 2002 and 2006, tying that short stretch of roadway with Rainier Avenue South between South Hudson Street and 39th Avenue South for the highest number of jaywalking collisions in the city. > > Between 2006 and 2006, the State Department of Transportation launched the Washington State Corridor Safety Program. [source](http://www.seattlepi.com/local/421842_cop16.html) They were told they broke a law, and had to stay. They walked away, and officer tried to bring them back. They physically resisted the officer. Maybe punching wasn’t the best move in this situation, but the officer was within his right to use force at that point. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/40 "2010-06-17T17:53:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are saying you would have preferred that the officer use the option that carried a higher risk of injury? The officer needed to take control of the situation and _police brass_ suggested that choice might have gotten it to that point sooner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=3)