# How to stop someone from jaywalking: punch them in the face. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557 "2010-06-17T15:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/41 "2010-06-17T17:55:21Z")
> [@Redwing](#): > > The amount of force used by the cop seems to be well below the reasonable limit from the video, but I do have to question the technique. Punching someone in the face is a great way to hurt your hand. Otherwise, what do you want him to do, get pushed around by some teenager? Draw a weapon? Plus, if you _ **don’t** _ draw the weapon, and wonder if someone with no qualms about pushing you has no qualms about getting grabby… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/42 "2010-06-17T17:55:34Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > I’d love to live somewhere where the police take jaywalking seriously. Here in DC, they ignore it. As a result, lots of people jaywalk even though the blocks are pretty short. Every day, I see some future Darwin Award winner, walk in front of oncoming traffic or try to scoot across in the middle of the road when he wouldn’t have a signal. I think they should let jaywalking go if the jaywalker is not impeding traffic and presenting a clear danger to road users. If, on the other hand, someone jaywalks in a manner that causes drivers to swerve or hit the brakes when they have the right of way, the person should be ticketed. Same for drivers who blow through crosswalks when there are pedestrians around. As for this incident, while it could be that a different cop might have handled the whole situation a little bit better, i’m not going to second-guess this guy for punching someone who got physical with him. The woman’s an idiot. Even if you think a cop is being unfair, there is a way to address that issue, and a time and a place to do it, that do not involve resisting arrest or interfering with the cop. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/43 "2010-06-17T17:56:02Z")
Good for the cop. If you physically put your hands on an officer while he’s trying to make an arrest, you deserve to be punched in the face ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/44 "2010-06-17T17:56:17Z")
What realistically are an officers choices when people refuse to cooperate, show his badge and the law no respect, and then physically assulat him? What dio you think would have been effective against two beligernat teenagers who felt it was okay to just ignore a law they thought was stupid and then push a cop trying to do his duty. Is the cop supposed to wait until he gets a knee or foot in the groin, or until she scratches his face. What kind of attack is he supposed to absorb before he defends himself from an attack. Taser?, call for backup?, let them walk away? Do you think she would have complacently cooperated if he’d have said, “You’re under arrest for asaulting an officer” Sometimes cops are worng and exercise less than perfect judgement but we can’t beat them up everytime that happens. She was in the wrong period. Do we wish it had gone differently? Sure. If you don’t like a law lobby to change it. If you don’t like the way a cop does his job get his name and badge number and file a complaint. You don’t get to decide to ignore a law and the cop trying to enfirce it on a whim. You don’t get to push a cop with impunity. You should be smart enough to know that is a serious and arrestable defense. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/45 "2010-06-17T17:57:52Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Here’s what I’m seriously disturbed by: > > > [@](#): > > > > causing the officer to believe she was attempting to physically affect the first subject’s escape > > Affect? \*\*AFFECT?! \*\*I’m just not sure if it’s worse if the error was made by the police representative making the statement or the journalist writing it down. (And either way, it made it past the “editor” of this article.) I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with the usage of “affect” and am coming up blank. What’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/46 "2010-06-17T18:01:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with the usage of “affect” and am coming up blank. What’s the problem? The word the cop and/or the journalist were looking for was “effect.” As a verb, effect means to bring about, to cause, or to create. Affect, as a verb, means to have an influence upon. More explanation [here](http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html). ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/47 "2010-06-17T18:17:13Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > What realistically are an officers choices when people refuse to cooperate, show his badge and the law no respect, and then physically assulat him? To whom is this addressed? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/48 "2010-06-17T18:18:38Z")
As I see it, the situation was escalating, there was resisting of arrest going on, the punch might have been a bit much but it did subdue the suspect. Once you’re being arrested it’s time to shut your mouth and cooperate. Not pretty but unfortunately necessary I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/49 "2010-06-17T18:19:34Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > The officer needed to take control of the situation and _police brass_ suggested that choice might have gotten it to that point sooner. Police brass also said that the leg sweep carried greater risk of injury to the arrestee. You referred to that as “a better choice”. In other words, you are criticizing the police, not because what he did was violent, but because it wasn’t violent enough. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/50 "2010-06-17T18:23:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In other words, you are criticizing the police, not because what he did was violent, but because it wasn’t violent enough. No, I making comments that, based on what police brass said, in a situation that was quickly escalating, the officer had policy- and procedurally-approved ways of taking control quicker, doing a job that is known to have risks. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/51 "2010-06-17T18:38:27Z")
I don’t have any problem with the cop’s actions here. You do not touch a police officer while he’s making an arrest. I’m also not going to second guess his judgment on the punch vs leg sweep technique. Given several bystanders in an apparently escalating confrontation, I’m not sure leaving his feet would have been a good idea. If he goes down, the crowd could have injured him had they been so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/52 "2010-06-17T18:41:55Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The word the cop and/or the journalist were looking for was “effect.” > As a verb, effect means to bring about, to cause, or to create. Affect, as a verb, means to have an influence upon. > More explanation [here](http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html). Yes, I know the difference. I think “affect” is the correct word–the second girl was trying to influence the escape of the first. “Effect” doesn’t really make sense. One cannot cause someone else to escape, you can only help them. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/53 "2010-06-17T18:45:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Yes, I know the difference. I think “affect” is the correct word–the second girl was trying to influence the escape of the first. “Effect” doesn’t really make sense. One cannot cause someone else to escape, you can only help them. You’re wrong. “To effect an escape” is a fairly standard expression–it means “to bring about an escape or make an escape possible.” “To affect an escape” would mean the other girl was already escaping, and her friend wanted to alter the way in which it was happening. Perhaps by handing her a festive party hat? If you’d consider Google a cite, “effect an escape” returns about 145,000 results, while “affect an escape” gives barely over 2,000, as well as the suggestion, “Did you mean: ‘effect an escape.’” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/54 "2010-06-17T18:55:45Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You’re wrong. “To effect an escape” is a fairly standard expression–it means “to bring about an escape or make an escape possible.” “To affect an escape” would mean the other girl was already escaping, and her friend wanted to alter the way in which it was happening. Perhaps by handing her a festive party hat? Attacking the police officer is altering the way the escape was happening. I’ve never seen the phrase “effect an escape” before. Maybe it is a regional usage. Forgot to add: Google doesn’t mean much to me in this case. I would use the phrase “help her escape” instead of either of those. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/55 "2010-06-17T19:03:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Attacking the police officer is altering the way the escape was happening. No, grabbing the officer’s arm was _making it possible for her friend to escape_. It was _giving her the opportunity to escape_. Thus, “effecting” it. > [@](#): > > Maybe it is a regional usage. **No, you’re _just plain wrong_.** It’s okay to be wrong. In fact, admitting you’re wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence is a good, mature thing to do. > [@](#): > > Forgot to add: Google doesn’t mean much to me in this case. Of course not. Because the fact that one version is \*orders of magnitude \*more common and \*suggested by the search engine \*(\*clearly \*with some sort of bizarre regional bias :rolleyes:–I wonder why it never asks if I meant “bubbler” when I type in “water fountain”?) is evidence of _nothing whatsoever_. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/56 "2010-06-17T19:07:55Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > “To affect an escape” would mean the other girl was already escaping, and her friend wanted to alter the way in which it was happening. Or it could mean she took a few steps as if attempting to flee, then stopped and giggled and said “just kidding!” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/57 "2010-06-17T20:04:56Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Or it could mean she took a few steps as if attempting to flee, then stopped and giggled and said “just kidding!” Also possible. Though she’d probably say “lol j/k!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/58 "2010-06-17T20:11:21Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > No, I making comments that, based on what police brass said, in a situation that was quickly escalating, the officer had policy- and procedurally-approved ways of taking control quicker, doing a job that is known to have risks. And those ways carry increased risk of injury. > [@](#): > > “My critique is that **he could have used more force** and taken the girl to the ground,” O’Neill said. “He could have grabbed her, it’s called a leg sweep, handcuffed her and it would have been over a lot faster, but **when you take someone to the ground you risk more injury**.” Emphasis mine. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/59 "2010-06-17T20:23:28Z")
deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557/60 "2010-06-17T20:33:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > No, grabbing the officer’s arm was _making it possible for her friend to escape_. It was _giving her the opportunity to escape_. We agree on that. > [@](#): > > Thus, “effecting” it. But not this. The first girl can “effect” an escape–she is the one being arrested. The second girl can “affect” the escape by giving the first girl assistance. She cannot “effect” an escape because she’s not arrested–she has nothing to escape from. You cannot cause someone else to escape, you can only give them the opportunity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-stop-someone-from-jaywalking-punch-them-in-the-face/543557.md?page=4)