# How to succeed World Wide as a pop star **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594 "2012-10-23T03:43:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/1 "2012-10-23T03:43:11Z")
So I was going retro looking up Youtube videos of popular tunes from the ‘60s & ‘70s. Then I came across this old gem. [Venus by Shocking Blue.](http://youtu.be/auoArgmzqN4) I noticed she had a bit of an accent which I never remembered being there before, so I looked up Shocking Blue on Wikipedia and found that Shocking Blue was actually a Dutch band. I can’t remember many Dutch bands popular internationally. So it got me thinking. Obviously, Britain and Ireland have linguistic advantages which allows them to automatically tap into the world pop market. For some reason, smaller countries (population wise) such as Sweden and Finland seem to produce more internationally popular pop bands compared to larger non-English speaking countries such as Germany, France and Holland. So, my theory is that because these countries have such a large native speaking population, pop bands will sing only in their native language limiting themselves from an international market. (By Pop here, I mean any popular music). Whereas countries with smaller populations, artists have no problem producing and performing songs in non-native English. Obviously there are exceptions where bands or artists become popular internationally despite singing in their own language, such as Rammstein out of Germany, Gypsy Kings from Spain and most recently Psy out of Korea. Am I on the right track here? Or could there be other reasons why countries such as Sweden produces more international stars compared to larger countries? All opinions appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/2 "2012-10-23T05:15:34Z")
The Dutch were very successful (compared to other non-English speaking nations) in the 60s and 70s. Most of these were on-hit-wonders, but the country stands out for the number of acts that made an appearance on US single/album charts. Vandenberg The Outsiders Golden Earring Focus Cuby & the Blizzards Brainbox George Baker Selection Mouth & Macneal Taco Tee Set The Nits More recently, there has been: Jan Akkerman Bettie Serveert Armin van Buuren Anouk I would agree that the scene has shifted to Scandinavian countries since the mid-Eighties. I’ve developed a fascination with Nordic rock and am well versed in the Dutch scene in the late 60s/early 70s. Aside from possibly Ireland, I can’t think of another European or Asian region that’s made major inroads on the US chartds. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/3 "2012-10-23T06:22:54Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > The Dutch were very successful (compared to other non-English speaking nations) in the 60s and 70s. Most of these were on-hit-wonders, but the country stands out for the number of acts that made an appearance on US single/album charts. > > Vandenberg > The Outsiders > Golden Earring > Focus > Cuby & the Blizzards > Brainbox > George Baker Selection > Mouth & Macneal > Taco > Tee Set > The Nits > > More recently, there has been: > Jan Akkerman > Bettie Serveert > Armin van Buuren > Anouk > > I would agree that the scene has shifted to Scandinavian countries since the mid-Eighties. I’ve developed a fascination with Nordic rock and am well versed in the Dutch scene in the late 60s/early 70s. Aside from possibly Ireland, I can’t think of another European or Asian region that’s made major inroads on the US chartds. Now you hit on something I overlooked. Namely, national anonymity. I didn’t know Shocking Blue was Dutch and I didn’t know any of the bands you listed were Dutch, so I guess there could be more than realized. I confess only a handful of the one’s you have listed are known to me. I can only blame myself for that though. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/4 "2012-10-23T15:22:56Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > Gypsy Kings from Spain France actually. Yes, they sing in Spanish, but that’s because a lot of their songs are “old timey” Spanish songs. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/5 "2012-10-23T15:31:20Z")
If you ever watch Eurovision (the European song contest held yearly, with singers/groups from all of Europe) you will see that most of the groups sing in English now. How to become a successful world-wide pop sensation? Luck, timing, talent. I started a recent thread on why there weren’t more international singing stars here in the US, or instrumental hits. I mused on the fact that you would think the internet would be a great tool in finding talent from other countries. Just a few weeks after I started the thread, what’s his name from Korea popped out of nowhere with his odd dance and song, and voila - another world-wide (one hit?) wonder was born. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/6 "2012-10-23T17:06:03Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > For some reason, smaller countries (population wise) such as Sweden and Finland seem to produce more internationally popular pop bands compared to larger non-English speaking countries such as Germany, France and Holland. > So, my theory is that because these countries have such a large native speaking population, pop bands will sing only in their native language limiting themselves from an international market. (By Pop here, I mean any popular music). Whereas countries with smaller populations, artists have no problem producing and performing songs in non-native English. > Obviously there are exceptions where bands or artists become popular internationally despite singing in their own language, such as Rammstein out of Germany, Gypsy Kings from Spain and most recently Psy out of Korea. > Am I on the right track here? > Or could there be other reasons why countries such as Sweden produces more international stars compared to larger countries? > All opinions appreciated. France has a quota system for radio/tv that means French language stuff gets priority with 40 per cent of its songs in French, half from new artists and there is a pretty decently sized international French language market when you take into account French-speaking Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, and French-speaking African nations. French acts singing in English have done pretty well in recent years, Justice, Daft Punk, and Phoenix in particular have been very popular and it seems that more and more French acts are switching to English despite the quota-advantage of singing in French. In contrast I recall reading a number of years ago that relatively few hits in Germany are in the German language, the same with Austria. Even a lot of bands that are popular within Germany and nowhere else choose to sing in English. German metal and electronic acts also seem to consistently do well internationally. I think part of Scandanavia’s recent success is due to state support for the arts and the artists in those countries. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/7 "2012-10-24T01:19:18Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > France actually. Yes, they sing in Spanish, but that’s because a lot of their songs are “old timey” Spanish songs. Never knew they were a French band singing in Spanish. Learn something new every day. > [@DMark](#): > > If you ever watch Eurovision (the European song contest held yearly, with singers/groups from all of Europe) you will see that most of the groups sing in English now. > > How to become a successful world-wide pop sensation? Luck, timing, talent. You would think that Eurovision would be a good place to launch a popular artist, but that seems to be an exception rather than a rule. The only band I can think of that became world wide sensations after performing at Eurovision was ABBA in 1974. Also find it strange that for all the talent Britain has, they only seem to send mediocre talent to the Eurovision contest. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > France has a quota system for radio/tv that means French language stuff gets priority with 40 per cent of its songs in French, half from new artists and there is a pretty decently sized international French language market when you take into account French-speaking Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, and French-speaking African nations. French acts singing in English have done pretty well in recent years, Justice, Daft Punk, and Phoenix in particular have been very popular and it seems that more and more French acts are switching to English despite the quota-advantage of singing in French. > > In contrast I recall reading a number of years ago that relatively few hits in Germany are in the German language, the same with Austria. Even a lot of bands that are popular within Germany and nowhere else choose to sing in English. German metal and electronic acts also seem to consistently do well internationally. > > I think part of Scandanavia’s recent success is due to state support for the arts and the artists in those countries. I’m embarrassed to say I haven’t heard of Justice, Daft Punk, or Phoenix but I will look them up. And apart from Rammstein, not sure I know of other German metal bands. Are the French and German examples very genre specific? Could it be that anyone who is a major fan of a specific genre will be aware of these bands, but these bands haven’t made it into mainstream? Let me put it this way. I live in Singapore, and this is a crossroads of sort. Popular Western music will reach here from UK, US and Australia although greatest indicator seems to be Japan. Any Western group who finds a following in Japan will soon be popular in Singapore too. Rammstein for example. Very popular and all the CD shops will have their albums. Then you have talent that may be popular in the West, but which you can’t find in the shops here. Most recent example is Lykke Li. I discovered her actually through an episode of Hawaii 5-0 where they were playing her music so I looked it up on the web. Surprise surprise! Another Swede! Anyway, I bought her CDs on a trip to Sweden last year. Perhaps she hasn’t hit super stardom yet, but I am starting to hear more and more about her in Singapore. On another front though, Singapore will also have the latest J-pop, K-pop, Indipop and Chinese pop music sensations as well. Knowing that they usually remain limited to Asia, (perhaps with the exception of Indipop which seems to have some following in Britain), I had heard about Psy ages ago, and I only realised he had become a sensation when he was making the news on Western websites. As for Scandinavian success. I know the government supports the arts, but I don’t think they promote artists. And I don’t think it’s recent if you consider ABBA in the '70s. On the other hand, perhaps part of the answer lies with ABBA. The success of ABBA world wide was a combination of catchy tunes sung in English. Perhaps Scandinavian artists were influenced by their success in performing in English? perhaps ABBA was a role model for future artists to reach for the international market. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/8 "2012-10-24T05:40:16Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > As for Scandinavian success. I know the government supports the arts, but I don’t think they promote artists. And I don’t think it’s recent if you consider ABBA in the '70s. On the other hand, perhaps part of the answer lies with ABBA. > The success of ABBA world wide was a combination of catchy tunes sung in English. Perhaps Scandinavian artists were influenced by their success in performing in English? perhaps ABBA was a role model for future artists to reach for the international market. Yeah but what can you possibly say in general when talking about one band? As Dmark says “How to become a successful world-wide pop sensation? Luck, timing, talent.” But talking specifically about Scandanavian countries, you’ve pointed out already the smaller domestic markets, and there’s also education that means a lot of people from those countries are fluent enough in English to express themselves well in that language through song. As regards Scandanavian support for the arts: > [@](#): > > Every year, millions in public money goes toward recording, **artist promotion** , videos, venues, touring, festivals-- even showcases at South By Southwest or CMJ Music Marathon. “Things that are not possible are made possible,” notes Ólöf Arnalds, an Icelandic singer/multi-instrumentalist who has benefited from government support. Over the past decade, Sweden has, perhaps not coincidentally, become a major player in global indie music. So, too, has Canada, which also enjoys government support for pop music." (From: [http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/7776-whats-the-matter-with-sweden/](http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/7776-whats-the-matter-with-sweden/)) Now some of this success might be down to a sort of network effect, one local artist becomes big and record companies start turning up looking to find the next big thing. Sometimes knock-on success will occur, other times not so much. Take say U2, who have at times been one of the biggest bands on Earth. They’re from Ireland. Does their success say something about Ireland and its music industry or only about U2? I know a lot of A&R money poured into Ireland in the wake of their success but despite that input not many subsequent acts flourished and none have reached the heights of U2. However, very few acts across the globe have ever had that level of success. But for every act out of Ireland after U2 that has been an international success, such as the Cranberries, or Enya there are dozens perhaps hundreds that had some money thrown at them and very little to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/9 "2012-10-24T07:10:22Z")
I think this is interesting, and not a coincidence that I can think of a number of Scandinavian acts that have had success in the US and England, which of course translates to success worldwide in music: ABBA a-ha Ace of Base Roxette The Hives The Cardigans Aqua Hanoi Rocks (stop laughing) Europe (seriously, stop laughing) I think it has to do with their proximity to the UK and in the case of these bands, their willingness to Anglicize (singing in English, even changing their names to sound more English), and damn, as horrific as some of the bands on this list are to me, they know their way around a pop hook. U2 is interesting. I would suggest that U2 had strong English connections - their early albums were produced by Steve Lillywhite, arguably the greatest English producer of the early 80s. They certainly are Irish, but seem to be different from other bands from Ireland like, say, Hothouse Flowers. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/10 "2012-10-24T08:37:33Z")
Funny you should mention Hothouse Flowers. They were perhaps the biggest victim of the hype surrounding Ireland post-U2. That Rolling Stone cover and other coverage probably did them damage in the long term. Pity, they’re a great band. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/11 "2012-10-24T08:40:27Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > The success of ABBA world wide was a combination of catchy tunes sung in English. Perhaps Scandinavian artists were influenced by their success in performing in English? perhaps ABBA was a role model for future artists to reach for the international market. In English and Spanish: every single song was bilingual, and in some cases the Spanish version was written first (the example usually given is Chiquitita). Back then, trying to break into the very-large Spanish-language market without singing in Spanish was similar to how it is nowadays to break into the English-language market without singing in English: doable but very difficult. ABBA Gold is available in both languages. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/12 "2012-10-24T14:59:59Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > You would think that Eurovision would be a good place to launch a popular artist, but that seems to be an exception rather than a rule. > **The only band I can think of that became world wide sensations after performing at Eurovision was ABBA in 1974.** > Also find it strange that for all the talent Britain has, they only seem to send mediocre talent to the Eurovision contest. Celine Dion sang the Eurovision song in French for the Swiss ages ago - and she hasn’t done badly since. Although I would admit this was hardly her big break - but still, she was relatively unknown at the time and it did put her on the radar. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/13 "2012-10-24T15:23:17Z")
You left out Gruppo Sportivo, Holland’s best band. They sing in english, and had a slug of releases staring about 1978. Recommended for those that dig modern pop, and like it fast and funny. I had no idea Mouth & McNeal were not US based. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/14 "2012-10-24T19:08:51Z")
There have been articles in The New Yorker and on the Planet Money podcast recently on the K-pop pheneomenon that is sweeping the world. One of the most interesting things about it is that they are successful all over the world while continuing to sing (mostly) in Korean. That’s fairly unprecedented. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/15 "2012-10-25T07:14:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There have been articles in The New Yorker and on the Planet Money podcast recently on the K-pop pheneomenon that is sweeping the world. One of the most interesting things about it is that they are successful all over the world while continuing to sing (mostly) in Korean. That’s fairly unprecedented. Are there K-pop bands other than Psy doing the rounds and having success? K-pop and J-pop have always had a following among obscurantist hipsters and Japanese/Korean culture vultures. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/16 "2012-10-25T08:15:07Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Celine Dion sang the Eurovision song in French for the Swiss ages ago - and she hasn’t done badly since. Although I would admit this was hardly her big break - but still, she was relatively unknown at the time and it did put her on the radar. Did she win? ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/17 "2012-10-25T08:20:34Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Are there K-pop bands other than Psy doing the rounds and having success? K-pop and J-pop have always had a following among obscurantist hipsters and Japanese/Korean culture vultures. I can confirm J-Pop and especially K-Pop is very popular here in Singapore. But then so are Taiwanese boy bands that you’ve never heard of. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/18 "2012-10-25T08:28:43Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > Did she win? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/19 "2012-10-25T12:25:30Z")
Well, I’ll be a monkey’s bare-assed uncle. I always thought Shocking Blue’s version of “Venus” was sung by a man. I guess it makes a lot more sense that a woman sang it. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594/20 "2012-10-25T18:02:17Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Are there K-pop bands other than Psy doing the rounds and having success? K-pop and J-pop have always had a following among obscurantist hipsters and Japanese/Korean culture vultures. There was a [major K-pop concert](http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2012/10/16/bigger-than-psy-2ne1-and-the-future-of-k-pop/)in the Prudential Center in New Jersey a couple of months ago, with several of the current top groups. I know of another one in the Los Angeles area as well. It’s gaining a lot of followers in the U.S. and Europe, at least in the big cities. J-pop, by comparison, never really extended much beyond Asia. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-succeed-world-wide-as-a-pop-star/638594.md?page=2)