# How to torture like a Commie **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2008, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026 "2008-07-02T10:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/21 "2008-07-03T00:07:33Z")
The rule of law is a beautiful thing, and it even applies to the Bush administration. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/22 "2008-07-03T00:10:41Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I am sorry you think I should be ashamed just because I do not _assume_ that crimes have been committed before a full investigation has been concluded, not to mention a trial. Maybe we should just assume that anyone accused of a crime actually committed that crime. [/QUOTE] No, I think you should be ashamed that representatives of our nation are using torture in our name, crime or not. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/23 "2008-07-03T00:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] No, I think you should be ashamed that representatives of our nation are using torture in our name, crime or not. [/QUOTE] The whole point is we to do know if it is torture, or even exactly what happened. Remember all those Marines that were accused of cold blooded murder in Haditha? Look what happened when we got real legal proceeding going. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/24 "2008-07-03T00:48:54Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > “I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.” Have ya ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water, Mandrake? Vodka, that’s what they drink, isn’t it? Never water. It used to be that an opposition to torture wasn’t considered controversial… Maybe fluoridation worked? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/25 "2008-07-03T02:22:02Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] The whole point is we to do know if it is torture, or even exactly what happened. Remember all those Marines that were accused of cold blooded murder in Haditha? Look what happened when we got real legal proceeding going. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that worked out real good, you could almost hear the gasps of admiration and approval across the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/26 "2008-07-03T02:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Yeah, that worked out real good, you could almost hear the gasps of admiration and approval across the Middle East. [/QUOTE] I guess you would have liked to have seen them railroaded into a conviction to make the Middle East happy. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/27 "2008-07-03T02:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=wevets] It used to be that an opposition to torture wasn’t considered controversial… [/QUOTE] Who is supporting torture? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/28 "2008-07-03T03:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I guess you would have liked to have seen them railroaded into a conviction to make the Middle East happy. [/QUOTE] An exaggeration. Actually, a wild exaggeration. But doesn’t it seem to you that a whole bunch of folks are dead and nobody seemed to have done much? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/29 "2008-07-03T03:16:05Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] An exaggeration. Actually, a wild exaggeration. But doesn’t it seem to you that a whole bunch of folks are dead and nobody seemed to have done much? [/QUOTE] Bunches of people tend to be killed in war zones. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/30 "2008-07-03T03:59:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] U.S. interrogation experts (psychologists) studied it and determined the process is useless for any purpose but the production of false propaganda; no reliable information can be extracted, only what the subject thinks the interrogator wants to hear. But the authorities appear to have lost sight of that distinction. [/QUOTE] I doubt the focus was ever on finding useful anti-terror info. 90% of those rounded up would just have been nobodies, with no useful information. The focus would have been on getting confessions to justify the initial incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/31 "2008-07-03T13:14:47Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] The rule of law is a beautiful thing, and it even applies to the Bush administration. [/QUOTE] [Try telling **them** that.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455418) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/32 "2008-07-03T13:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Bunches of people tend to be killed in war zones. [/QUOTE] Once again, compassion and empathy are not your strong suit, are they? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/33 "2008-07-03T13:29:24Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] I doubt the focus was ever on finding useful anti-terror info. 90% of those rounded up would just have been nobodies, with no useful information. The focus would have been on getting confessions to justify the initial incarceration. [/QUOTE] Then what would have been the **motive** for the original incarceration? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/34 "2008-07-03T13:59:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Then what would have been the **motive** for the original incarceration? [/QUOTE] In order to have people to torture for confessions of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/35 "2008-07-03T14:00:36Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Bunches of people tend to be killed in war zones. [/QUOTE] And sometimes under circumstances constituting a crime. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/36 "2008-07-03T15:14:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] And sometimes under circumstances constituting a crime. What is your point? [/QUOTE] My point is that it is not a crime every time that bunches of people end up dead. Just because a bunch of people ended of dead in Haditha does not mean that anyone committed a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/37 "2008-07-03T15:17:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Try telling **them** that.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455418) [/QUOTE] I am sure that book is full of wonderfully impressive accusations, but if we want to establish that Bush administration has actually broken the rule of law, we need a full investigation to be followed up by legal proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/38 "2008-07-03T15:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] if we want to establish that Bush administration has actually broken the rule of law, we need a full investigation to be followed up by legal proceedings. [/QUOTE] I’d be all for such an investigation, followed by such proceedings. In the meantime, I reiterate a point that I fortunately haven’t had to make in awhile: _lawyers don’t own our vocabulary_. Lawyers are welcome to assert what a given word means in a courtroom, just like mathematicians are free to use ordinary words in different ways from the usual in math papers and texts. But out here, I don’t need a legal ruling to say that these techniques are torture. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/39 "2008-07-03T16:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] In the meantime, I reiterate a point that I fortunately haven’t had to make in awhile: _lawyers don’t own our vocabulary_. Lawyers are welcome to assert what a given word means in a courtroom, just like mathematicians are free to use ordinary words in different ways from the usual in math papers and texts. But out here, I don’t need a legal ruling to say that these techniques are torture. [/QUOTE] You can call torture anything you want, but if you want there to be consequences to a finding of torture that finding will need to meet the legal definition. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026/40 "2008-07-03T17:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] You can call torture anything you want, but if you want there to be consequences to a finding of torture that finding will need to meet the legal definition. [/QUOTE] Since my point was > [@the OP](#): > > So pardon me if my sympathies lie with the captives at Gitmo and Bagram and elsewhere, rather than with their captors who are supposedly trying to keep me safe. I was raised to know right from wrong, and to believe that America was on the side of right. It is the captors who are trying to keep me safe who are unAmerican. I’ll regard that as a non-sequitur. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-torture-like-a-commie/455026.md?page=3)