# how to: usage of 'have had' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839 "2004-01-05T17:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/1 "2004-01-05T17:29:56Z")
can someone tell me how exactly does one use the phrase ‘have had’? i’m not sure how i should search this question on google. ---
**Author:** ![jmizzou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jmizzou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmizzou)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/2 "2004-01-05T17:55:13Z")
This is a [Present Perfect](http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html) verb tense. It is an action that has happened at an unspecified time in the past. Examples: We have had a lot of rain. I have had many friends. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/3 "2004-01-05T18:38:09Z")
I’ve had 900 posts since April 2003. I have had 900 posts since April 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/4 "2004-01-05T18:57:21Z")
“Have” has two distinct meanings in English: 1. To possess; to own; to be in control of 2. Auxiliary for formation of the “perfective mode” – the “perfect” tenses indicating action until a given time. “Had” is of course the past tense for “have” in both usages. “Have had” is the present perfect form of “to have” in the first meaning, with the “have” element functioning in the second meaning. I have a dog. (I possess a dog.) I have had this dog since I was ten. (duration of the possession.) I had had another dog before I got this one. (past perfect form.) I will have this dog until one or the other of us dies. I will have had this dog for all its life when that happens. If you’re familiar with Spanish, _tener_ represents the first meaning, and _haber_ the second. _Hé tenido este perro_ is “I have had this dog” in (present) perfect tense. French has similar constructions but I’m not familiar enough with French verbs to go through the parallels. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/5 "2004-01-05T19:09:37Z")
ok thanks. does that mean the sentences, “We had a lot of rain.” and “I had many friends.” imply a specific period? such as “I had 8xx posts last year” and “I had a dog (when i was a child)”? “I had had another dog before I got this one.” - how is this different from “I had another dog before I got this one.”? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/6 "2004-01-05T19:23:59Z")
“I had had another dog…” That’s the past perfect. The past perfect is often ignored in colloquial English, but there’s at least three specific instances of when this tense should be used: 1. The third conditional e.g. I would have won the race if I had had a better car. The structure of the third conditional is “if+subject+past perfect” in the if clause, subject + would/could/might in the main clause. 1. When talking/writing in the past tense, and needing to reference a more distant past eg. In 1975, I bought my first car. Before that, I had taken public transportation. 1. In reported speech, when indirectly quoting someone, the present perfect tense becomes the past perfect. e.g. “I have never been to Uruguay,” said Jim. “What did Jim say?” “Jim said that he had never been to Uruguay.” ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/7 "2004-01-06T05:05:21Z")
A good way to understand the use of ‘have had’ and it’s other forms is to compare it to another verb. Since ‘to own’ is a close synonym of ‘to have,’ let’s use that. I own a dog. I have a dog. ---- Present case. I am owning a dog mainly for company. I am having a dog mainly for the company. — use of an auxiliary verb for the progressive present case. I owned a dog twice in my life. I had a dog twice in my life. ------ Simple past. I have owned a dog for many years. I have had a dog for many years. ------- Perfect past. I owned a cat once, and before that, I had owned a dog. I owned a cat once, and before that, I had had a dog. — Pluperfect case. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/8 "2004-01-06T05:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shijinn \* > **ok thanks. does that mean the sentences, “We had a lot of rain.” and “I had many friends.” imply a specific period? such as “I had 8xx posts last year” and “I had a dog (when i was a child)”?** Yep. More accurately, the past tense indicates something that occurred completely in the past, whereas the past perfect tense indicates something that started in the past and is continuing in the present. For example “I had 8xx posts last year” as opposed to “I have had 8xx posts this year”. Using the present perfect tense in the second case implies that you will continue to post this year. If you are finished posting for the year (for instance, your last post on new year’s eve), you would say “I had 8xx posts this year.” ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/9 "2004-01-06T15:27:49Z")
Sorry, **moriah** , but your examples have some problems… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > \*\*A good way to understand the use of ‘have had’ and it’s other forms is to compare it to another verb. Since ‘to own’ is a close synonym of ‘to have,’ let’s use that. > > I own a dog. > I have a dog. ---- Present case. > > I am owning a dog mainly for company. > I am having a dog mainly for the company. — use of an auxiliary verb for the progressive present case. > \*\* Yes, this is the present progressive tense, but your example is rather unnatural English. Because of the idiomatic usage of ‘have’, which some of you have forgotten, _I am having a dog._ (Are you on holiday in Cambodia, perhaps?) sounds too similar to _I am having a steak/salad/glass of wine._ You might also be _having a bath/shower/good time/party/blast._… without actually ‘possessing’ them. Most native English-speakers would say _I own/have a dog._ (Members of PETA would likely say, _My companion is a dog._), but would never say, _I am owning a dog._ Yes, the grammar is correct, but the grammar is correct in the following sentence, too: _My dog is burning you._ Which is grammatically correct, but rather nonsensical. (Not to be confused with the completely ungrammatical,) _I burning your dog._ The present progressive is more often naturally used for short-term actions, such as: _I am typing this on my computer keyboard._ > [@](#): > > **I have owned a dog for many years. > I have had a dog for many years. ------- Perfect past.** OK, except, it’s **past perfect**. > [@](#): > > \*\*I owned a cat once, and before that, I had owned a dog. > I owned a cat once, and before that, I had had a dog. — Pluperfect case. > \*\* English does not have a “pluperfect” case. English has a past perfect tense, examples of which are provided above. It is utter folly to define one language’s grammar in terms of another language’s grammar, unless the languages have identical grammar. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/10 "2004-01-07T05:23:07Z")
i can’t believe how i had left this question unasked all this time, _while using it anyway._ ^^’ thanks for the clarification. i take it that i can use ‘have had’ for a past action during an unspecified time that is continuing into the present. such as, “I have had bad luck most of my life.” “I had bad luck during last night’s poker session.” “I had had bad luck all the time I was in Vegas before my luck turned in California.” “I have bad luck.” if i got all that right, i might use ‘have had’, but ‘had had’ really sounds like a bad cough. **gluteus maximus** , way to add _I burning your dog_ into a grammar thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/11 "2004-01-07T06:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## I have owned a dog for many years. I have had a dog for many years. ------- Perfect past. > > OK, except, it’s past perfect. All fine and well, except that it’s **present** perfect. Past perfect of had is “had had.” Just to be a completist, let’s go through all twelve tenses for “to have”: Future simple: will have Future continuous/progressive: will be having Future perfect: will have had Future perfect cont/prog: will have been having Present simple: have Present c/p: am having Present perf: have had Presten perf/c/p: have been having Past s: had Past c/p: was having Past perf: had had Past perf/c/p: had been having ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/12 "2004-01-07T06:39:33Z")
I have had it with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-to-usage-of-have-had/222839/13 "2004-01-07T06:39:52Z")
That’s correct **shijinn** , any past action which continues into the present should use the present perfect. Any time you ask a question about general life experiences, they go into the present perfect. The type of question I mean is “Have you ever been to Bali?” or “Have you seen Lord of the Rings?” These are questions with an indefinite past which continue into the present. Let’s take these two statements: “Did you see Lord of the Rings?” vs “Have you seen Lord of the Rings?” The second is the correct form to use if you’re asking someone in general if they’ve seen it yet. The first you would use with a specific timeframe, as in: “Did you see Lord of the Rings last night?” or “Did you see Lord of the Rings last week?” or simply “Did you see Lord of the Rings” if a time period is understood. (That is, you called me last night, told me you were going to see the movie. Tonight I call you and ask, “Hey, so did you see Lord of the Rings?”) Words like “yet,” “ever,” “never,” “always,” prompt a present perfect construction.